Comment 2TJ7 Re: Bravo for sysadmins - and pipedot!


Is it time to fork Debian?


Bravo for sysadmins - and pipedot! (Score: 2, Insightful)

by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-19 18:35 (#2TFV)

Sysadmins take 'WAY too much crap from developers.

Almost every dot-com I have worked at or the past twenty-plus years listened 'WAY too much to developers, and allowed things to be rolled out, that shouldn't have been.

Almost every dot-com I've worked in the past ten years was started up by developers who called me in when things got too complicated for them to administer, and develop code, at the same time.

Almost every dot-com I have communicated with in the past two or three years seems hell-bent upon moving everything into 'The Cloud'. WHICH cloud? That changes about once every eighteen months, it seems.

Recruiters are now looking for these new-fangled 'devops' - these would be software developers, who do hardware operations - or is it hardware operators, who do software development? - to do twice the work, at half the price.

By my count, the average number of programming languages, technologies, vendor product lines, networking protocols, etc that one is now expected to master exceeds that of the average UN polyglot translator by a factor of ten.

It's pretty clear the people making up these job descriptions are only counting the money they will save by hiring one person to do two jobs and have NO CLUE what goes into either software development OR hardware operations.

We sysadmins need to start pushing back more!

And so it's great to see collective some movement against systemd.

Even if I am a BSD guy, at home, I still wrestle with Linux, at work - and so I share all of your concerns.

Re: Bravo for sysadmins - and pipedot! (Score: 2, Insightful)

by on 2014-10-19 22:27 (#2TG4)

I'm a professional sysadmin on debian boxes starting from potatoes (I started as a developper). I'm now investigating alternatives for all servers my shop manages because I see too many desktop'ish stuff on fresh install done by my coworkers coming to our servers. I cannot stand to have much in pid 1 and need to reboot when some package updates. Our customer are start-up in early stages and most of the time they come to us when they encounter their first hickup somewhere "in the cloud"... Therefore I can just totally agree with your statement! And thank you Zafiro for this news as I don't read google+...

Re: Bravo for sysadmins - and pipedot! (Score: 3, Informative)

by on 2014-10-21 14:35 (#2TJ7)

Maybe you should read up a bit on systemd before you post this kind of untrue stuff, or maybe run it and see just what it does. Systemd does *not* cram everything in pid 1! To say it does is false, plain and simple. You'd know this if you took some time to examine a system that runs systemd. It also does not require a reboot for most updates to systemd. Everything that can possibly be done outside of pid 1 is done outside of pid 1. If you do an update, the package manager issues systemctl daemon-reexec and all the systemd subsystems restart with the new binaries. If something was changed in pid 1 then, like upstart or system v, a reboot is required. But that just doesn't happen very often. I've installed maybe 2 updates to the systemd packages on RHEL 7, and did not need a reboot.

I don't mind actual arguments being made against systemd, but I rarely find any in these discussions! Just mumblings about philosophy and theoretical problems, completely ignoring the very real and ongoing problems with system v and the like, which are impacting a lot of sysadmins. Which is pretty crazy. We've had maybe a half dozen stories on it in the last month on the other sites, and no one can say anything other than FUD it appears.

I'm not arguing for systemd so much as taking issue with the way people are spreading this sort of misinformation, and taking issue with the idea that system v wasn't broken (it is broken, especially with modern, hot-plugged server hardware).


Time Reason Points Voter
2014-10-21 22:57 Informative +1
2014-10-21 18:56 Informative +1

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