Does it really need to be... (Score: 2, Interesting) by konomi@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 05:32 (#2TM5) Does google mail need to be even more simple? It seems simple enough but I'm not exactly the "Can you dumb that down for me to my level?" type of person. The way technology is being directed at the moment by many companies reminds me of the jokes about an Apple device that only has a single button for simplicity. I dread a future where everyone has the devices they used dumb down so they can understand them strait away instead of elevating themselves to understanding their device, and perhaps by extension the world around them more. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-23 12:42 (#2TMB) Not sure I agree. GMail is actually a terrible user interface, with the usual hide and seek options and disappearing buttons so inexplicably in vogue now. It also happens to be ugly as sin. It could get a LOT better. I'm also torn on the "understand their device" construct. It should only be necessary to a point. Machines serve and should anticipate humans. Apple's always gone too far the wrong way, removing mouse buttons and power switches.The single most glaring flaw of iOS is the missing Back button. It makes the entire interface a chore. They will likely introduce a sneaky alternative to much fanfare (a la the "Magic Mouse") in a version or three. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by zafiro17@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 16:49 (#2TMP) The tragedy of gmail is that at first the interface was very good and it's gotten worse with each iteration. Clearly this is the fruit of some Google employee's pet project (what do they call them? 10% projects or something?) and is gaining some attention and traction. In 2006 or so gmail was a pretty straight-forward thing that did everything you were used to doing but better, more cleanly, and more easily. They've pissed around with the UI ever since then and generally made it into a beast that's less likeable by those who value their email. It might have helped folks that oversubscribed to junk or facebook status updates and didn't know how to create filters to deal with all of it. But to serious emailers the changes were annoyances.Shout-out, by the way, to Fastmail.com, who does nothing but IMAP and does it right. I don't often use their web interface because I'm a email-client kind of person, but when I do I find it easy to manage and not too "fruity." Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 2, Insightful) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 17:48 (#2TMV) The tragedy of gmail is that at first the interface was very good and it's gotten worse with each iteration.That is the reason why I avoid web services wherever I can. I got my fair share of flame, when I said that I hated this or that new version of interface, for instance /., or sourceforge. 'Conservative', 'mossback', 'stick-in-the-mud'... and worse I have been called. Strangely, I never got a clear answer when I asked how they would like it when I enter their homes while they are away, and redecorate. Paint the wallpapers in a different color, change the carpets, and reorganize their wardrobes and such things. They come home and suddenly everything is different.A web service, unless I host it myself, never belongs to me. Features can come and go, or get changed. And very often I have the feeling, it has nothing to do with usability, but politics. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-23 20:17 (#2TNB) Check out soGo. Self hosted webmail that acts pretty much identically to Thunderbird. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 20:30 (#2TNC) Thanks, not necessary. I have my own dedicated server. When I use a free mail service, I never use their web interface, but let them forward all incoming mail to this server. On this server I run http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dovecot_%28software%29 dovecot, which make my email available via IMAP on my desktops at home. For most people this configuration would be overkill, but I host several git repositories on this server and use it to store backups. The email handling is just a nice additional feature. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-23 22:18 (#2TNG) Think you missed my point? SoGO is a particularly decent web mail daemon you run on YOUR server. Like SquirrelMail or Roundcube or Horde but much better.It's nice for those times you don't have a full client handy. It's a normal FOSS project, not some clingy 3rd party service. But if you don't need it, cool. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 22:48 (#2TNH) I skimmed through the project page and decided: Overkill for my needs. Agreed, far more powerful than what I have now, but far more powerful means also far more complicated... means higher security risks.I don't need calendaring or messaging data. A pure email solution via IMAP is perfect for me. Access under Linux: Claws Mail. Under Android: K-9 Mail. Under Windows... erm... don't need mail to start my games.But I bookmarked the project page. Should I ever need groupware features, I now know it exists. However, should I ever install it, it most likely will be for other people. For me... I deeply distrust such universal-all-in-one-super-duper-everything gadgets. Open source or not.
Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-23 12:42 (#2TMB) Not sure I agree. GMail is actually a terrible user interface, with the usual hide and seek options and disappearing buttons so inexplicably in vogue now. It also happens to be ugly as sin. It could get a LOT better. I'm also torn on the "understand their device" construct. It should only be necessary to a point. Machines serve and should anticipate humans. Apple's always gone too far the wrong way, removing mouse buttons and power switches.The single most glaring flaw of iOS is the missing Back button. It makes the entire interface a chore. They will likely introduce a sneaky alternative to much fanfare (a la the "Magic Mouse") in a version or three. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by zafiro17@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 16:49 (#2TMP) The tragedy of gmail is that at first the interface was very good and it's gotten worse with each iteration. Clearly this is the fruit of some Google employee's pet project (what do they call them? 10% projects or something?) and is gaining some attention and traction. In 2006 or so gmail was a pretty straight-forward thing that did everything you were used to doing but better, more cleanly, and more easily. They've pissed around with the UI ever since then and generally made it into a beast that's less likeable by those who value their email. It might have helped folks that oversubscribed to junk or facebook status updates and didn't know how to create filters to deal with all of it. But to serious emailers the changes were annoyances.Shout-out, by the way, to Fastmail.com, who does nothing but IMAP and does it right. I don't often use their web interface because I'm a email-client kind of person, but when I do I find it easy to manage and not too "fruity." Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 2, Insightful) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 17:48 (#2TMV) The tragedy of gmail is that at first the interface was very good and it's gotten worse with each iteration.That is the reason why I avoid web services wherever I can. I got my fair share of flame, when I said that I hated this or that new version of interface, for instance /., or sourceforge. 'Conservative', 'mossback', 'stick-in-the-mud'... and worse I have been called. Strangely, I never got a clear answer when I asked how they would like it when I enter their homes while they are away, and redecorate. Paint the wallpapers in a different color, change the carpets, and reorganize their wardrobes and such things. They come home and suddenly everything is different.A web service, unless I host it myself, never belongs to me. Features can come and go, or get changed. And very often I have the feeling, it has nothing to do with usability, but politics. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-23 20:17 (#2TNB) Check out soGo. Self hosted webmail that acts pretty much identically to Thunderbird. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 20:30 (#2TNC) Thanks, not necessary. I have my own dedicated server. When I use a free mail service, I never use their web interface, but let them forward all incoming mail to this server. On this server I run http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dovecot_%28software%29 dovecot, which make my email available via IMAP on my desktops at home. For most people this configuration would be overkill, but I host several git repositories on this server and use it to store backups. The email handling is just a nice additional feature. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-23 22:18 (#2TNG) Think you missed my point? SoGO is a particularly decent web mail daemon you run on YOUR server. Like SquirrelMail or Roundcube or Horde but much better.It's nice for those times you don't have a full client handy. It's a normal FOSS project, not some clingy 3rd party service. But if you don't need it, cool. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 22:48 (#2TNH) I skimmed through the project page and decided: Overkill for my needs. Agreed, far more powerful than what I have now, but far more powerful means also far more complicated... means higher security risks.I don't need calendaring or messaging data. A pure email solution via IMAP is perfect for me. Access under Linux: Claws Mail. Under Android: K-9 Mail. Under Windows... erm... don't need mail to start my games.But I bookmarked the project page. Should I ever need groupware features, I now know it exists. However, should I ever install it, it most likely will be for other people. For me... I deeply distrust such universal-all-in-one-super-duper-everything gadgets. Open source or not.
Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by zafiro17@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 16:49 (#2TMP) The tragedy of gmail is that at first the interface was very good and it's gotten worse with each iteration. Clearly this is the fruit of some Google employee's pet project (what do they call them? 10% projects or something?) and is gaining some attention and traction. In 2006 or so gmail was a pretty straight-forward thing that did everything you were used to doing but better, more cleanly, and more easily. They've pissed around with the UI ever since then and generally made it into a beast that's less likeable by those who value their email. It might have helped folks that oversubscribed to junk or facebook status updates and didn't know how to create filters to deal with all of it. But to serious emailers the changes were annoyances.Shout-out, by the way, to Fastmail.com, who does nothing but IMAP and does it right. I don't often use their web interface because I'm a email-client kind of person, but when I do I find it easy to manage and not too "fruity." Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 2, Insightful) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 17:48 (#2TMV) The tragedy of gmail is that at first the interface was very good and it's gotten worse with each iteration.That is the reason why I avoid web services wherever I can. I got my fair share of flame, when I said that I hated this or that new version of interface, for instance /., or sourceforge. 'Conservative', 'mossback', 'stick-in-the-mud'... and worse I have been called. Strangely, I never got a clear answer when I asked how they would like it when I enter their homes while they are away, and redecorate. Paint the wallpapers in a different color, change the carpets, and reorganize their wardrobes and such things. They come home and suddenly everything is different.A web service, unless I host it myself, never belongs to me. Features can come and go, or get changed. And very often I have the feeling, it has nothing to do with usability, but politics. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-23 20:17 (#2TNB) Check out soGo. Self hosted webmail that acts pretty much identically to Thunderbird. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 20:30 (#2TNC) Thanks, not necessary. I have my own dedicated server. When I use a free mail service, I never use their web interface, but let them forward all incoming mail to this server. On this server I run http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dovecot_%28software%29 dovecot, which make my email available via IMAP on my desktops at home. For most people this configuration would be overkill, but I host several git repositories on this server and use it to store backups. The email handling is just a nice additional feature. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-23 22:18 (#2TNG) Think you missed my point? SoGO is a particularly decent web mail daemon you run on YOUR server. Like SquirrelMail or Roundcube or Horde but much better.It's nice for those times you don't have a full client handy. It's a normal FOSS project, not some clingy 3rd party service. But if you don't need it, cool. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 22:48 (#2TNH) I skimmed through the project page and decided: Overkill for my needs. Agreed, far more powerful than what I have now, but far more powerful means also far more complicated... means higher security risks.I don't need calendaring or messaging data. A pure email solution via IMAP is perfect for me. Access under Linux: Claws Mail. Under Android: K-9 Mail. Under Windows... erm... don't need mail to start my games.But I bookmarked the project page. Should I ever need groupware features, I now know it exists. However, should I ever install it, it most likely will be for other people. For me... I deeply distrust such universal-all-in-one-super-duper-everything gadgets. Open source or not.
Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 2, Insightful) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 17:48 (#2TMV) The tragedy of gmail is that at first the interface was very good and it's gotten worse with each iteration.That is the reason why I avoid web services wherever I can. I got my fair share of flame, when I said that I hated this or that new version of interface, for instance /., or sourceforge. 'Conservative', 'mossback', 'stick-in-the-mud'... and worse I have been called. Strangely, I never got a clear answer when I asked how they would like it when I enter their homes while they are away, and redecorate. Paint the wallpapers in a different color, change the carpets, and reorganize their wardrobes and such things. They come home and suddenly everything is different.A web service, unless I host it myself, never belongs to me. Features can come and go, or get changed. And very often I have the feeling, it has nothing to do with usability, but politics. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-23 20:17 (#2TNB) Check out soGo. Self hosted webmail that acts pretty much identically to Thunderbird. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 20:30 (#2TNC) Thanks, not necessary. I have my own dedicated server. When I use a free mail service, I never use their web interface, but let them forward all incoming mail to this server. On this server I run http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dovecot_%28software%29 dovecot, which make my email available via IMAP on my desktops at home. For most people this configuration would be overkill, but I host several git repositories on this server and use it to store backups. The email handling is just a nice additional feature. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-23 22:18 (#2TNG) Think you missed my point? SoGO is a particularly decent web mail daemon you run on YOUR server. Like SquirrelMail or Roundcube or Horde but much better.It's nice for those times you don't have a full client handy. It's a normal FOSS project, not some clingy 3rd party service. But if you don't need it, cool. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 22:48 (#2TNH) I skimmed through the project page and decided: Overkill for my needs. Agreed, far more powerful than what I have now, but far more powerful means also far more complicated... means higher security risks.I don't need calendaring or messaging data. A pure email solution via IMAP is perfect for me. Access under Linux: Claws Mail. Under Android: K-9 Mail. Under Windows... erm... don't need mail to start my games.But I bookmarked the project page. Should I ever need groupware features, I now know it exists. However, should I ever install it, it most likely will be for other people. For me... I deeply distrust such universal-all-in-one-super-duper-everything gadgets. Open source or not.
Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-23 20:17 (#2TNB) Check out soGo. Self hosted webmail that acts pretty much identically to Thunderbird. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 20:30 (#2TNC) Thanks, not necessary. I have my own dedicated server. When I use a free mail service, I never use their web interface, but let them forward all incoming mail to this server. On this server I run http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dovecot_%28software%29 dovecot, which make my email available via IMAP on my desktops at home. For most people this configuration would be overkill, but I host several git repositories on this server and use it to store backups. The email handling is just a nice additional feature. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-23 22:18 (#2TNG) Think you missed my point? SoGO is a particularly decent web mail daemon you run on YOUR server. Like SquirrelMail or Roundcube or Horde but much better.It's nice for those times you don't have a full client handy. It's a normal FOSS project, not some clingy 3rd party service. But if you don't need it, cool. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 22:48 (#2TNH) I skimmed through the project page and decided: Overkill for my needs. Agreed, far more powerful than what I have now, but far more powerful means also far more complicated... means higher security risks.I don't need calendaring or messaging data. A pure email solution via IMAP is perfect for me. Access under Linux: Claws Mail. Under Android: K-9 Mail. Under Windows... erm... don't need mail to start my games.But I bookmarked the project page. Should I ever need groupware features, I now know it exists. However, should I ever install it, it most likely will be for other people. For me... I deeply distrust such universal-all-in-one-super-duper-everything gadgets. Open source or not.
Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 20:30 (#2TNC) Thanks, not necessary. I have my own dedicated server. When I use a free mail service, I never use their web interface, but let them forward all incoming mail to this server. On this server I run http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dovecot_%28software%29 dovecot, which make my email available via IMAP on my desktops at home. For most people this configuration would be overkill, but I host several git repositories on this server and use it to store backups. The email handling is just a nice additional feature. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-23 22:18 (#2TNG) Think you missed my point? SoGO is a particularly decent web mail daemon you run on YOUR server. Like SquirrelMail or Roundcube or Horde but much better.It's nice for those times you don't have a full client handy. It's a normal FOSS project, not some clingy 3rd party service. But if you don't need it, cool. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 22:48 (#2TNH) I skimmed through the project page and decided: Overkill for my needs. Agreed, far more powerful than what I have now, but far more powerful means also far more complicated... means higher security risks.I don't need calendaring or messaging data. A pure email solution via IMAP is perfect for me. Access under Linux: Claws Mail. Under Android: K-9 Mail. Under Windows... erm... don't need mail to start my games.But I bookmarked the project page. Should I ever need groupware features, I now know it exists. However, should I ever install it, it most likely will be for other people. For me... I deeply distrust such universal-all-in-one-super-duper-everything gadgets. Open source or not.
Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-10-23 22:18 (#2TNG) Think you missed my point? SoGO is a particularly decent web mail daemon you run on YOUR server. Like SquirrelMail or Roundcube or Horde but much better.It's nice for those times you don't have a full client handy. It's a normal FOSS project, not some clingy 3rd party service. But if you don't need it, cool. Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 22:48 (#2TNH) I skimmed through the project page and decided: Overkill for my needs. Agreed, far more powerful than what I have now, but far more powerful means also far more complicated... means higher security risks.I don't need calendaring or messaging data. A pure email solution via IMAP is perfect for me. Access under Linux: Claws Mail. Under Android: K-9 Mail. Under Windows... erm... don't need mail to start my games.But I bookmarked the project page. Should I ever need groupware features, I now know it exists. However, should I ever install it, it most likely will be for other people. For me... I deeply distrust such universal-all-in-one-super-duper-everything gadgets. Open source or not.
Re: Does it really need to be... (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-10-23 22:48 (#2TNH) I skimmed through the project page and decided: Overkill for my needs. Agreed, far more powerful than what I have now, but far more powerful means also far more complicated... means higher security risks.I don't need calendaring or messaging data. A pure email solution via IMAP is perfect for me. Access under Linux: Claws Mail. Under Android: K-9 Mail. Under Windows... erm... don't need mail to start my games.But I bookmarked the project page. Should I ever need groupware features, I now know it exists. However, should I ever install it, it most likely will be for other people. For me... I deeply distrust such universal-all-in-one-super-duper-everything gadgets. Open source or not.