systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-09-07 17:27 (#2S4H) It's a symptom of the sickness of the Linux kernel/system developers' philosophy. There has been no innovation in the Linux kernel for ages and Linux itself has never done anything new. Filesystems? Done much better in other Unices. Multiprocessing? Done to death since the 60s. Different task schedulers? Ditto. There is nothing new in Linux itself, it's just an effort to clone Unix.Being such an effort, it was completed a long time ago. All there is left to do is to change the interfaces (how many times iptables interface has changed?), change the internal structures, change change change, for no good reason. This is what happens when you mess with a working program just for the fun of it. You eventually break it so bad that you enter a road impossible to turn from. The sickness has permeated into the very core of the kernel: device management. We have had tons of the same stuff which performed equally badly over 20 years. We had kudzu, then HAL, then udev, and now systemd-udev. This "sake for the sake of change" sickness has a cause: people think that they could automate the complicated tasks of installing an operating system, installing services, modifying hardware etc. It's not gonna happen. It's the year 2014 and I'm still having troubles with my sound card. The fucking sound card! I'm not even mentioning that I'm using the third driver for my graphics card and that's not working properly either. In order to make that impossible dream come true, they are screwing around, changing interfaces. This causes the "change for the sake of change". Even if we can stop the systemd madness now, RedHat will find something else to "automate" and "make friendly to idiot sysadmins who can't read a fine manual". In another ten years we could be boycotting something else like "stop the networkd madness". I really think that the whole Linux thing should be abandoned. Stop giving away code for free and decepting managers saying that it's as good as the ones real engineers (with a focus in mind) designed. Solaris could hotswap CPUs, now it's gone. Tru64 could do massive multiprocessing even back in the 90s, now also gone. All gone into the toilet bowl of "we don't need to pay that much, a clusterfuck of PCs are just as good and here is an operating system for that". Even small attempts at creating a proper desktop system was killed by the free shit. I remember QNX, but there were others too. I'm not even talking about where we could be in mobile computing if this Linux-dumping didn't happen. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by zafiro17@pipedot.org on 2014-09-07 17:32 (#2S4J) This post comes to you from opensuse 13.1, so I'm not a lost cause yet, but ... you've got a good point. I'd add: in all this spinning of change-for-change's-sake, a lot of useful stuff has fallen off the wheel.My best example is this weekend's point of frustration: I've got a trackball with two extra buttons. How to configure them? Google it and you'll quckly find out the answer is currently: there is no way. Oh wait, you can install btnx. No, that is now deprecated. Or you can install some other 3rd party daemon thing that comes with no documentation. C'mon, guys!The worst is, for an opensuse user, is there used to be a slick utility called sax2 that did phenomenal work configuring X11 for you back when it was X11. The move to x.org broke that and they never updated it. There /is/ something called sax3 now but it segfaults as soon as it starts.That means, despite all the eyecandy, the version of opensuse I used back in 2004 was more useful to me in practical purposes. I'd argue the move from KDE3 to KDE4 is the same story: yes, better in terms of flash and maybe in terms of potential, but KDE3 as a desktop basically gave me better options and got me working faster.C'mon people: 5 button mouse, make it work. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-07 19:05 (#2S4K) My razer deathadder, a 5 button mouse, is working just fine. :) Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by zafiro17@pipedot.org on 2014-09-08 09:27 (#2S4Z) I'm happy for you. But what OS are you using it on, and how did you configure it? I looked it up at their site and it doesn't mention any support for Linux, so i assume you're using it on Windows using their driver. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 2, Informative) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-08 13:43 (#2S5E) What would be the point of me telling you that if I were running Windows? Nah, I'm on archlinux. I did some research before buying the mouse just to make sure it was supported. I just downloaded some package on the archlinux user repository. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 2, Insightful) by fnj@pipedot.org on 2014-09-09 12:38 (#2S6S) As a fellow arch user, let's agree that arch users have the advantage on everybody else here with the AUR. I'm surprised no one in any of the other distros has figured out yet what a massive advantage the concept of the AUR is. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-09-09 13:44 (#2S6Z) Maybe that's because the majority of people have never even heard of AUR. For example, I haven't. So what is it, and why is it an advantage? Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-09 16:12 (#2S7A) https://aur.archlinux.org/Basically, anyone using archlinux can make a PKGBUILD for a piece of software and upload it into the AUR. The PKGBUILD allows you to install that software with your package manager. So the AUR is this giant repository of software available to all users, where you can find all manners of experimental browsers, patches for various hardware, community projects, etc. There is no need to mess around with PPAs, you just download the software from the AUR (something which can be done from the command line if you have the rigth wrapper), use the PKGBUILD and then install it with your package manager the way you would any piece of software. There's actually wrappers for arch's package manager (the most famous one being yaourt, I'd say) which will search the AUR as well as the offcial repositories when you make a query, allowing you to seemlessly integrate the AUR packages with the official repos. It's not really recommended though since it's important to understand how PKGBUILDs work.It's a great concept. You can really find anything on the AUR.
Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by zafiro17@pipedot.org on 2014-09-07 17:32 (#2S4J) This post comes to you from opensuse 13.1, so I'm not a lost cause yet, but ... you've got a good point. I'd add: in all this spinning of change-for-change's-sake, a lot of useful stuff has fallen off the wheel.My best example is this weekend's point of frustration: I've got a trackball with two extra buttons. How to configure them? Google it and you'll quckly find out the answer is currently: there is no way. Oh wait, you can install btnx. No, that is now deprecated. Or you can install some other 3rd party daemon thing that comes with no documentation. C'mon, guys!The worst is, for an opensuse user, is there used to be a slick utility called sax2 that did phenomenal work configuring X11 for you back when it was X11. The move to x.org broke that and they never updated it. There /is/ something called sax3 now but it segfaults as soon as it starts.That means, despite all the eyecandy, the version of opensuse I used back in 2004 was more useful to me in practical purposes. I'd argue the move from KDE3 to KDE4 is the same story: yes, better in terms of flash and maybe in terms of potential, but KDE3 as a desktop basically gave me better options and got me working faster.C'mon people: 5 button mouse, make it work. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-07 19:05 (#2S4K) My razer deathadder, a 5 button mouse, is working just fine. :) Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by zafiro17@pipedot.org on 2014-09-08 09:27 (#2S4Z) I'm happy for you. But what OS are you using it on, and how did you configure it? I looked it up at their site and it doesn't mention any support for Linux, so i assume you're using it on Windows using their driver. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 2, Informative) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-08 13:43 (#2S5E) What would be the point of me telling you that if I were running Windows? Nah, I'm on archlinux. I did some research before buying the mouse just to make sure it was supported. I just downloaded some package on the archlinux user repository. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 2, Insightful) by fnj@pipedot.org on 2014-09-09 12:38 (#2S6S) As a fellow arch user, let's agree that arch users have the advantage on everybody else here with the AUR. I'm surprised no one in any of the other distros has figured out yet what a massive advantage the concept of the AUR is. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-09-09 13:44 (#2S6Z) Maybe that's because the majority of people have never even heard of AUR. For example, I haven't. So what is it, and why is it an advantage? Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-09 16:12 (#2S7A) https://aur.archlinux.org/Basically, anyone using archlinux can make a PKGBUILD for a piece of software and upload it into the AUR. The PKGBUILD allows you to install that software with your package manager. So the AUR is this giant repository of software available to all users, where you can find all manners of experimental browsers, patches for various hardware, community projects, etc. There is no need to mess around with PPAs, you just download the software from the AUR (something which can be done from the command line if you have the rigth wrapper), use the PKGBUILD and then install it with your package manager the way you would any piece of software. There's actually wrappers for arch's package manager (the most famous one being yaourt, I'd say) which will search the AUR as well as the offcial repositories when you make a query, allowing you to seemlessly integrate the AUR packages with the official repos. It's not really recommended though since it's important to understand how PKGBUILDs work.It's a great concept. You can really find anything on the AUR.
Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-07 19:05 (#2S4K) My razer deathadder, a 5 button mouse, is working just fine. :) Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by zafiro17@pipedot.org on 2014-09-08 09:27 (#2S4Z) I'm happy for you. But what OS are you using it on, and how did you configure it? I looked it up at their site and it doesn't mention any support for Linux, so i assume you're using it on Windows using their driver. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 2, Informative) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-08 13:43 (#2S5E) What would be the point of me telling you that if I were running Windows? Nah, I'm on archlinux. I did some research before buying the mouse just to make sure it was supported. I just downloaded some package on the archlinux user repository. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 2, Insightful) by fnj@pipedot.org on 2014-09-09 12:38 (#2S6S) As a fellow arch user, let's agree that arch users have the advantage on everybody else here with the AUR. I'm surprised no one in any of the other distros has figured out yet what a massive advantage the concept of the AUR is. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-09-09 13:44 (#2S6Z) Maybe that's because the majority of people have never even heard of AUR. For example, I haven't. So what is it, and why is it an advantage? Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-09 16:12 (#2S7A) https://aur.archlinux.org/Basically, anyone using archlinux can make a PKGBUILD for a piece of software and upload it into the AUR. The PKGBUILD allows you to install that software with your package manager. So the AUR is this giant repository of software available to all users, where you can find all manners of experimental browsers, patches for various hardware, community projects, etc. There is no need to mess around with PPAs, you just download the software from the AUR (something which can be done from the command line if you have the rigth wrapper), use the PKGBUILD and then install it with your package manager the way you would any piece of software. There's actually wrappers for arch's package manager (the most famous one being yaourt, I'd say) which will search the AUR as well as the offcial repositories when you make a query, allowing you to seemlessly integrate the AUR packages with the official repos. It's not really recommended though since it's important to understand how PKGBUILDs work.It's a great concept. You can really find anything on the AUR.
Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by zafiro17@pipedot.org on 2014-09-08 09:27 (#2S4Z) I'm happy for you. But what OS are you using it on, and how did you configure it? I looked it up at their site and it doesn't mention any support for Linux, so i assume you're using it on Windows using their driver. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 2, Informative) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-08 13:43 (#2S5E) What would be the point of me telling you that if I were running Windows? Nah, I'm on archlinux. I did some research before buying the mouse just to make sure it was supported. I just downloaded some package on the archlinux user repository. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 2, Insightful) by fnj@pipedot.org on 2014-09-09 12:38 (#2S6S) As a fellow arch user, let's agree that arch users have the advantage on everybody else here with the AUR. I'm surprised no one in any of the other distros has figured out yet what a massive advantage the concept of the AUR is. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-09-09 13:44 (#2S6Z) Maybe that's because the majority of people have never even heard of AUR. For example, I haven't. So what is it, and why is it an advantage? Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-09 16:12 (#2S7A) https://aur.archlinux.org/Basically, anyone using archlinux can make a PKGBUILD for a piece of software and upload it into the AUR. The PKGBUILD allows you to install that software with your package manager. So the AUR is this giant repository of software available to all users, where you can find all manners of experimental browsers, patches for various hardware, community projects, etc. There is no need to mess around with PPAs, you just download the software from the AUR (something which can be done from the command line if you have the rigth wrapper), use the PKGBUILD and then install it with your package manager the way you would any piece of software. There's actually wrappers for arch's package manager (the most famous one being yaourt, I'd say) which will search the AUR as well as the offcial repositories when you make a query, allowing you to seemlessly integrate the AUR packages with the official repos. It's not really recommended though since it's important to understand how PKGBUILDs work.It's a great concept. You can really find anything on the AUR.
Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 2, Informative) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-08 13:43 (#2S5E) What would be the point of me telling you that if I were running Windows? Nah, I'm on archlinux. I did some research before buying the mouse just to make sure it was supported. I just downloaded some package on the archlinux user repository. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 2, Insightful) by fnj@pipedot.org on 2014-09-09 12:38 (#2S6S) As a fellow arch user, let's agree that arch users have the advantage on everybody else here with the AUR. I'm surprised no one in any of the other distros has figured out yet what a massive advantage the concept of the AUR is. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-09-09 13:44 (#2S6Z) Maybe that's because the majority of people have never even heard of AUR. For example, I haven't. So what is it, and why is it an advantage? Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-09 16:12 (#2S7A) https://aur.archlinux.org/Basically, anyone using archlinux can make a PKGBUILD for a piece of software and upload it into the AUR. The PKGBUILD allows you to install that software with your package manager. So the AUR is this giant repository of software available to all users, where you can find all manners of experimental browsers, patches for various hardware, community projects, etc. There is no need to mess around with PPAs, you just download the software from the AUR (something which can be done from the command line if you have the rigth wrapper), use the PKGBUILD and then install it with your package manager the way you would any piece of software. There's actually wrappers for arch's package manager (the most famous one being yaourt, I'd say) which will search the AUR as well as the offcial repositories when you make a query, allowing you to seemlessly integrate the AUR packages with the official repos. It's not really recommended though since it's important to understand how PKGBUILDs work.It's a great concept. You can really find anything on the AUR.
Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 2, Insightful) by fnj@pipedot.org on 2014-09-09 12:38 (#2S6S) As a fellow arch user, let's agree that arch users have the advantage on everybody else here with the AUR. I'm surprised no one in any of the other distros has figured out yet what a massive advantage the concept of the AUR is. Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-09-09 13:44 (#2S6Z) Maybe that's because the majority of people have never even heard of AUR. For example, I haven't. So what is it, and why is it an advantage? Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-09 16:12 (#2S7A) https://aur.archlinux.org/Basically, anyone using archlinux can make a PKGBUILD for a piece of software and upload it into the AUR. The PKGBUILD allows you to install that software with your package manager. So the AUR is this giant repository of software available to all users, where you can find all manners of experimental browsers, patches for various hardware, community projects, etc. There is no need to mess around with PPAs, you just download the software from the AUR (something which can be done from the command line if you have the rigth wrapper), use the PKGBUILD and then install it with your package manager the way you would any piece of software. There's actually wrappers for arch's package manager (the most famous one being yaourt, I'd say) which will search the AUR as well as the offcial repositories when you make a query, allowing you to seemlessly integrate the AUR packages with the official repos. It's not really recommended though since it's important to understand how PKGBUILDs work.It's a great concept. You can really find anything on the AUR.
Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-09-09 13:44 (#2S6Z) Maybe that's because the majority of people have never even heard of AUR. For example, I haven't. So what is it, and why is it an advantage? Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-09 16:12 (#2S7A) https://aur.archlinux.org/Basically, anyone using archlinux can make a PKGBUILD for a piece of software and upload it into the AUR. The PKGBUILD allows you to install that software with your package manager. So the AUR is this giant repository of software available to all users, where you can find all manners of experimental browsers, patches for various hardware, community projects, etc. There is no need to mess around with PPAs, you just download the software from the AUR (something which can be done from the command line if you have the rigth wrapper), use the PKGBUILD and then install it with your package manager the way you would any piece of software. There's actually wrappers for arch's package manager (the most famous one being yaourt, I'd say) which will search the AUR as well as the offcial repositories when you make a query, allowing you to seemlessly integrate the AUR packages with the official repos. It's not really recommended though since it's important to understand how PKGBUILDs work.It's a great concept. You can really find anything on the AUR.
Re: systemd is a symptom, not the cause (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-09-09 16:12 (#2S7A) https://aur.archlinux.org/Basically, anyone using archlinux can make a PKGBUILD for a piece of software and upload it into the AUR. The PKGBUILD allows you to install that software with your package manager. So the AUR is this giant repository of software available to all users, where you can find all manners of experimental browsers, patches for various hardware, community projects, etc. There is no need to mess around with PPAs, you just download the software from the AUR (something which can be done from the command line if you have the rigth wrapper), use the PKGBUILD and then install it with your package manager the way you would any piece of software. There's actually wrappers for arch's package manager (the most famous one being yaourt, I'd say) which will search the AUR as well as the offcial repositories when you make a query, allowing you to seemlessly integrate the AUR packages with the official repos. It's not really recommended though since it's important to understand how PKGBUILDs work.It's a great concept. You can really find anything on the AUR.