Great idea (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2015-01-08 02:54 (#2WP7) Will it scale to commercial airlines though Re: Great idea (Score: 1) by nightsky30@pipedot.org on 2015-01-09 00:25 (#2WPA) I hope it is, but I doubt we will see any drop in ticket prices. Greedy, all of them! Re: Great idea (Score: 2, Interesting) by bsdguy@pipedot.org on 2015-01-11 03:15 (#2WPD) As a middle class private pilot who owns his own plane (cheap little one) I can tell you there are plenty of costs to aviation which the public does not directly see. Here is a small list from my experience owning a plane for just a few years.. annual inspection (about $400 for my little plane, much more for a 747). 100 hour inspection - yep every plane in commercial service must be inspected every 100 operational hours at about the same level as the annual inspection. landing fees - to land and take off from JFK, LGA, or EWR costs over $100 for my little 2 place plane.fuel of course.lubrication oil.replacement parts for time limited parts - ex a gen-set may be rated at 10,000 hours after which it must be replaced even if in perfect order. mandated engine overhauls - my engine must be given a complete overhaul every 500 operating hours. recurring training for pilots - for private pilots this comes out to something between $500 and $2000 every 2 years, for ATP pilots (airline pilots) the costs are greater and so is the frequency.cost of operating slots at major airports - yep the airlines have to pay for take off and landing times at LGA,JGK, LAX, SFO etc.So while we would all love to see lower costs I can not say it is all due to greed. Something I read several years ago claimed that airlines only made a few percent profit. I have not been part of an airline, but I am friends with owners of small charter operations and I can tell you they have real thin profit margins.From what I see the best use of hybrid technology in aviation is for small general aviation aircraft like mine, and then the small to medium sized puddle jumpers used by the regional operators and charter operations. The technology does not lend it's self well as a replacement for jet propulsion, so the bigger faster planes will not benefit from this work in the foreseeable future.BSDGuy Re: Great idea (Score: 1) by evilviper@pipedot.org on 2015-01-11 05:13 (#2WPJ) The technology does not lend it's self well as a replacement for jet propulsion, so the bigger faster planes will not benefit from this work in the foreseeable future.I'm not so sure... I'd like to see how much more quickly a 787 with electric motors on the landing gear could reach takeoff speeds. Re: Great idea (Score: 1) by bsdguy@pipedot.org on 2015-01-11 18:11 (#2WPM) The take off roll is only a matter of seconds at most airports before the wheels are off the deck, unless the pilot is holding it down on purpose as he might do in gusty conditions.There are of course the exceptions such as Quito where the altitude makes the take off run longer, or of course very hot places like Vegas in the summer where sometimes low power GA aircraft like the Piper J3 have to take off before sunrise.I do not think the size of electric motors that could drive the wheels of a large jet would have significant impact on takeoff distance. I do think that they would be good for taxi purposes, but since the jets need to be spun up anyway there would probably be little gain of economy.BSDGuy
Re: Great idea (Score: 1) by nightsky30@pipedot.org on 2015-01-09 00:25 (#2WPA) I hope it is, but I doubt we will see any drop in ticket prices. Greedy, all of them! Re: Great idea (Score: 2, Interesting) by bsdguy@pipedot.org on 2015-01-11 03:15 (#2WPD) As a middle class private pilot who owns his own plane (cheap little one) I can tell you there are plenty of costs to aviation which the public does not directly see. Here is a small list from my experience owning a plane for just a few years.. annual inspection (about $400 for my little plane, much more for a 747). 100 hour inspection - yep every plane in commercial service must be inspected every 100 operational hours at about the same level as the annual inspection. landing fees - to land and take off from JFK, LGA, or EWR costs over $100 for my little 2 place plane.fuel of course.lubrication oil.replacement parts for time limited parts - ex a gen-set may be rated at 10,000 hours after which it must be replaced even if in perfect order. mandated engine overhauls - my engine must be given a complete overhaul every 500 operating hours. recurring training for pilots - for private pilots this comes out to something between $500 and $2000 every 2 years, for ATP pilots (airline pilots) the costs are greater and so is the frequency.cost of operating slots at major airports - yep the airlines have to pay for take off and landing times at LGA,JGK, LAX, SFO etc.So while we would all love to see lower costs I can not say it is all due to greed. Something I read several years ago claimed that airlines only made a few percent profit. I have not been part of an airline, but I am friends with owners of small charter operations and I can tell you they have real thin profit margins.From what I see the best use of hybrid technology in aviation is for small general aviation aircraft like mine, and then the small to medium sized puddle jumpers used by the regional operators and charter operations. The technology does not lend it's self well as a replacement for jet propulsion, so the bigger faster planes will not benefit from this work in the foreseeable future.BSDGuy Re: Great idea (Score: 1) by evilviper@pipedot.org on 2015-01-11 05:13 (#2WPJ) The technology does not lend it's self well as a replacement for jet propulsion, so the bigger faster planes will not benefit from this work in the foreseeable future.I'm not so sure... I'd like to see how much more quickly a 787 with electric motors on the landing gear could reach takeoff speeds. Re: Great idea (Score: 1) by bsdguy@pipedot.org on 2015-01-11 18:11 (#2WPM) The take off roll is only a matter of seconds at most airports before the wheels are off the deck, unless the pilot is holding it down on purpose as he might do in gusty conditions.There are of course the exceptions such as Quito where the altitude makes the take off run longer, or of course very hot places like Vegas in the summer where sometimes low power GA aircraft like the Piper J3 have to take off before sunrise.I do not think the size of electric motors that could drive the wheels of a large jet would have significant impact on takeoff distance. I do think that they would be good for taxi purposes, but since the jets need to be spun up anyway there would probably be little gain of economy.BSDGuy
Re: Great idea (Score: 2, Interesting) by bsdguy@pipedot.org on 2015-01-11 03:15 (#2WPD) As a middle class private pilot who owns his own plane (cheap little one) I can tell you there are plenty of costs to aviation which the public does not directly see. Here is a small list from my experience owning a plane for just a few years.. annual inspection (about $400 for my little plane, much more for a 747). 100 hour inspection - yep every plane in commercial service must be inspected every 100 operational hours at about the same level as the annual inspection. landing fees - to land and take off from JFK, LGA, or EWR costs over $100 for my little 2 place plane.fuel of course.lubrication oil.replacement parts for time limited parts - ex a gen-set may be rated at 10,000 hours after which it must be replaced even if in perfect order. mandated engine overhauls - my engine must be given a complete overhaul every 500 operating hours. recurring training for pilots - for private pilots this comes out to something between $500 and $2000 every 2 years, for ATP pilots (airline pilots) the costs are greater and so is the frequency.cost of operating slots at major airports - yep the airlines have to pay for take off and landing times at LGA,JGK, LAX, SFO etc.So while we would all love to see lower costs I can not say it is all due to greed. Something I read several years ago claimed that airlines only made a few percent profit. I have not been part of an airline, but I am friends with owners of small charter operations and I can tell you they have real thin profit margins.From what I see the best use of hybrid technology in aviation is for small general aviation aircraft like mine, and then the small to medium sized puddle jumpers used by the regional operators and charter operations. The technology does not lend it's self well as a replacement for jet propulsion, so the bigger faster planes will not benefit from this work in the foreseeable future.BSDGuy Re: Great idea (Score: 1) by evilviper@pipedot.org on 2015-01-11 05:13 (#2WPJ) The technology does not lend it's self well as a replacement for jet propulsion, so the bigger faster planes will not benefit from this work in the foreseeable future.I'm not so sure... I'd like to see how much more quickly a 787 with electric motors on the landing gear could reach takeoff speeds. Re: Great idea (Score: 1) by bsdguy@pipedot.org on 2015-01-11 18:11 (#2WPM) The take off roll is only a matter of seconds at most airports before the wheels are off the deck, unless the pilot is holding it down on purpose as he might do in gusty conditions.There are of course the exceptions such as Quito where the altitude makes the take off run longer, or of course very hot places like Vegas in the summer where sometimes low power GA aircraft like the Piper J3 have to take off before sunrise.I do not think the size of electric motors that could drive the wheels of a large jet would have significant impact on takeoff distance. I do think that they would be good for taxi purposes, but since the jets need to be spun up anyway there would probably be little gain of economy.BSDGuy
Re: Great idea (Score: 1) by evilviper@pipedot.org on 2015-01-11 05:13 (#2WPJ) The technology does not lend it's self well as a replacement for jet propulsion, so the bigger faster planes will not benefit from this work in the foreseeable future.I'm not so sure... I'd like to see how much more quickly a 787 with electric motors on the landing gear could reach takeoff speeds. Re: Great idea (Score: 1) by bsdguy@pipedot.org on 2015-01-11 18:11 (#2WPM) The take off roll is only a matter of seconds at most airports before the wheels are off the deck, unless the pilot is holding it down on purpose as he might do in gusty conditions.There are of course the exceptions such as Quito where the altitude makes the take off run longer, or of course very hot places like Vegas in the summer where sometimes low power GA aircraft like the Piper J3 have to take off before sunrise.I do not think the size of electric motors that could drive the wheels of a large jet would have significant impact on takeoff distance. I do think that they would be good for taxi purposes, but since the jets need to be spun up anyway there would probably be little gain of economy.BSDGuy
Re: Great idea (Score: 1) by bsdguy@pipedot.org on 2015-01-11 18:11 (#2WPM) The take off roll is only a matter of seconds at most airports before the wheels are off the deck, unless the pilot is holding it down on purpose as he might do in gusty conditions.There are of course the exceptions such as Quito where the altitude makes the take off run longer, or of course very hot places like Vegas in the summer where sometimes low power GA aircraft like the Piper J3 have to take off before sunrise.I do not think the size of electric motors that could drive the wheels of a large jet would have significant impact on takeoff distance. I do think that they would be good for taxi purposes, but since the jets need to be spun up anyway there would probably be little gain of economy.BSDGuy