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I am software developer. I develop mostly under Linux. I usually compile my own development tools. Compiler, IDE, non-standard libs. This is not always necessary, sometimes even overkill, but at least this way I know how the stuff is compiled and what the dependencies are. And I rarely get nasty surprises when I do an update/upgrade. So my work stuff is somewhat insulated from the rest of the Linux. Apart from developing stuff I do almost everything with Linux (Debian). I surf, watch movies, print. Linux is my main system. And it works. No problems at all. So I don't really care what kind of init system is used. Maybe I would think different, if I develop for Linux itself. Maybe systemd has problems, which really bite developers, who have to work with it directly or indirectly. However, when I see the noise because of systemd... are there really that many developers, which work on that level? I have the feeling something might be a bit blown out of proportion.

Firefox's market share has gone from the mid-30% to somewhere around 10%. So where exactly did that 20% go? You claim it isn't to Chrome, but it mostly is.

Both IE and Firefox have lost users to Chrome. But IE is clearly making a comeback. It's getting better, while Firefox is getting worse.

That's the difference between a dying project and a thriving project: a dying project is heading in the wrong direction, while a thriving one is improving.

Debian is heading in a very bad direction with the adoption of systemd. That's why it's a dying project. Like GNOME and Firefox, it's collectively making bad decisions that are ruining the user experience, and driving users away.

"Dying" doesn't mean "dead", either. Debian could very well come back, if they're smart and ditch systemd now, before the community is too fragmented.

And FreeBSD was never dying. The whole idea behind those comments at /. was that they flew in the face of reality, and that's what makes them amusing. FreeBSD has always been a thriving project.

We tried to discuss technology. But people like you modded down our comments, preventing that from continuing.

Mine was mindspring which was eventually swallowed by earthlink. Of course I am not counting my Ga Tech school email account since I rarely used it.

Why EXACTLY is that impressive?

It's impressive because it is a challenging feat.

Riding a unicycle across a tightrope isn't exactly a viable mode of transportation... But it's still impressive.

stripping an OS down that small to brag about seems not only stupid but a serious waste of time

I don't see anything stupid about it, off-hand. Maybe it's lacking some features, but that remains to be seen.

Basically anybody making their own Linux distro should similarly be accused of wasting their time. It's just so much quicker to use whatever else is already out there. Most of those open source developers over the years have wasted profound amounts of their time. Your comment, similarly, a waste of time.

USING (rather than building) a tiny distro, meanwhile, doesn't require wasting any of your time. In fact it's guaranteed to save you at least a little bit of time. And on an ongoing basis, the smaller it is, the faster it'll load and run, saving small amounts of time, multiplied by however many users the system has, and multiplied by however many times they launch each application or reboot.

Why EXACTLY is that impressive? Are you dumpster diving hardware from 1993? Even the cheapest POS tower I have in the corner of the shop so I have something at every price point including below $100 has a 160GB HDD in it so frankly stripping an OS down that small to brag about seems not only stupid but a serious waste of time,especially when its supposed to be a desktop as opposed to an embedded platform.

I think we could save some time with all these recent "My First _______" polls, and just have one that directly asks readers "How Old Are You?" and be done with it...

Then you'd be able to do a pretty good job estimating what their first email address, first gaming system, first computer system, etc., was very likely to have been.

You paint a very appealing picture, Zafe. But.... With that light and underfeatured a system, relying so much on external services, might one/you be better served by a fixed appliance/terminal? No chance of corruption, everything in Da Cloud, etc. All the real action happens on your and other remote servers.

'Cause it sounds like that's what a superlight distro is accomplishing anyway, only with the vagaries and vulnerabilities of normal PC hardware.

we're going to need a better measurement system here...

Here's an extensive list of appropriate units for the discerning (tabloid) press:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/24/vulture_central_standards/

Considering that a simple base "A" set of software from Slackware runs about 100 mb, and that's before even throwing an X server in there.

Damn Small Linux is a full 20 mb more.

It is kind of sad that we got here though. Back in 2000, I had Floppix, which ran on 2 3.5" 1.44 MB floppies. Don't expect to see this any time soon again though; the kernel has gotten a bit obese in the last 14 years. Still waiting on the microkernel revolution to come and save us from this madness.

I would suggest that environmental agencies are part of the problem. As someone who has worked with state and federal environmental agencies, they can be hard to deal with. Permitting any kind of new manufacturing or recycling operation is a tough process and the agencies aren't always reasonable or fair.

I value protecting the environment, but the bureaucracy that typifies these agencies has no value whatsoever.

No, actually I was implying your opinion is irrelevant because you've never contributed anything of value...

Shameless ad-hom, then. Cute.

The next time I happen to find something of interest at the daily mail, I will submit it like usual.

Regardless of whether there are better sources merely a Google-search away?
Ok, let's turn this around: why do you not want Pipedot stories to avoid linking to tabloids? Tabloids are generally something to avoid on a tech-savvy site like this, no?

The borderline-NSFW nonsense linked from the Daily Mail article should be reason enough. I'd rather get my scientific updates from a site that doesn't try to catch my interest with mostly-naked photos of (presumably) celebrities.

You appear to be implying that my opinion is irrelevant because it is subjective

No, actually I was implying your opinion is irrelevant because you've never contributed anything of value...

Linking to bullshit sources like the Daily Mail really is something to avoid.

You've declined to demonstrate that it is "bullshit," so no. The next time I happen to find something of interest at the daily mail, I will submit it like usual. Of course you are free to continue complaining about it.

That's a nice rant you made here. There's just one little thing wrong with it: I'm not "the one who dowmods ACs". In fact I think I've -1'ed a post a handful of times at most in the entire time I've been here. The little button under that post currently reads "Normal" to me.

But definitely that was a nice rant you just made. I could really feel the emotion and the self-rigtheousness. 9/10

I'm not gonna claim you're killing pipedot, since it's ridiculous to think any one user could do it, but you're certainly not helping with your drama and finger pointing. Get that shit back to soylent news. This is a site about discussing technology, and I expect certain standards here.

Now please, let's discuss technology.

P.S.: You didn't address my points. The parent was still a rant completely disconnected from reality. And I'm not the only one to believe this, that's why someone else modded him -1. I mean, really? Debian is dying? Maybe you should tell all the volunteers. Like the guy said below: [Citation needed]. That's not a thoughtful discussion-generating post. That's an angry rant.

Is there something inaccurate in the linked story at all?

I don't real the Daily Mail. I read the other two sources I linked to instead.

Assuming not, why should I or anyone else be concerned with your particular preference of news souce?

Err, because I'm not necessarily just a blabbering moron. There's a finite possibility that the low opinion of the Daily Mail held by me and others is actually justified, wouldn't you agree?

You appear to be implying that my opinion is irrelevant because it is subjective, but would you lend as much weight to the scientific ideas of a noisy drunk as to an article in Nature? Does a professor, marking her students' essays, prefer to see respectable sources cited in preference to tabloids?

High-quality sources are a practical concern. Linking to bullshit sources like the Daily Mail really is something to avoid.

You don't need a pickup to carry big appliances; just a bicycle with the proper fittings;
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/06/23/how-to-carry-major-appliances-on-your-bike/
Yeah!

Not only do we get miles and kilometers, we also get football fields!

Wait... How big is it in kibimeters?

I could make a lengthy comment about why I think the original AC is wrong (also evilpiper already made a good point over here) and why his post qualifies as a rant (the Troll mod might be exagerated ... or not, let the mods decide), but instead I will summarize my thoughts in the standard good old-fashioned way:

Debian is a dying project.

[citation needed] (insert netcraft-related jokes here)

disclaimers: I did not downmod the original AC but I won't upmod it either

Hotmail here. I used to tell people that it was "hotmale" because I thought that was funny.

Is there something inaccurate in the linked story at all?

Assuming not, why should I or anyone else be concerned with your particular preference of news souce?

Also, no one asked you to go out of your way to "+1" anything, as you replied in an interesting straw man fashion. We're asking you to STOP going out of your way to downmod posts simply because you disagree with them or because their tone isn't quite to your liking. Your behavior is destructive to this site.

So you're the one who keeps downmodding reasonable ACs. Thanks for finally coming out of the closet.

For the record, I am neither the grandparent poster in question nor the guy you were replying to.

The GP was strident but was in no way a troll. If you're the person who downmodded it, you are making a mistake. He stated an opinion with some supporting detail and comparisons.

You are killing Pipedot, skarjak. Your one powerful little downvote sets the "-1" and keeps your registered brethren from seeing the discussion. This place has the best ACs I've ever seen, and you or someone like you keeps downmodding them arbitrarily and denying other users a viable conversation. Heck, even Zafiro (and perhaps Bryan) has commented on how wrong-headed you are and how unfortunate it is that very reasonable AC posts, ones that generate good discussion, are "disappeared".

Just stop it, man. You're wrong, and if you're an adult you can deal with that.

Wait. Are we talking American Football or World Cup Football (aka Soccer)? I'm pretty sure those fields aren't the same size, so we're going to need a better measurement system here...

Gotta love the measurement thoroughness in the summary! Not only do we get miles and kilometers, we also get football fields! If they ever get a volume reading on this thing, I hope they release it as "rods to the hogshead" or something like that. XD

Fully agree. If I could give you 5 mod points I would.

It would possibly be +5 on slashdot because it really appeals to the hivemind there. It is -1 here because the comment is simply wrong. It might be nice to think those companies you think have slighted you are now "dying", but they are all doing pretty well right now. The parent was just a self-righteous rant. More to the point, the companies named generally made changes with the intention of making themselves more appealing to certain users. That is not "crapping on their users" as was incorrectly claimed.

If not automatically +1'ing every thing that appeals to the internet hivemind bothers you, then this is no big loss to pipedot.

dailymail.co.uk? Christ.

How about a source that isn't total garbage?

(I'm not normally one to just complain, but seriously.)

I think I'm done with Pipedot. The parent comment should be +5, Insightful, not -1, Troll.

The moderation here is worse than it is on /. or SN.

Good comments like that one should be celebrated, not shunned!

Yes, +1 for Hotmail.

Not "for profit" is a bit of a red herring. Mozilla rolls in its cash historically through their Google deal for FF search. They care a LOT about money, and little about anything else (good code, sane hiring, their legacy, stability, efficiency).

Googlio's and MS's financial motivations fortheir browsers are of course obvious.

Not sure why you seem to be saying that all companies absolutely require systemd in a distro they will use. They never did before.

Oh yeah, forgot Hotmail. Bummer once these polls are launched you can't modify them.

I can't remember, it was either Yahoo or Hotmail (but I can't see the latter as an option unless I'm missing something)

There were tons of pong clones. The controls were usually the most distinctive part, remember anything about them? Knobs, sliders, pucks, weird nub things?

Why cripple yourself, USA?

A balloon on a string is not a blimp.

How about NewEgg?:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Description=linux%20laptop&Submit=ENE

AMD is opening the hardware as fast as humanly possible, supports the coreboot project, even put some extra men on the FOSS APU drivers to get them up to snuff...

AMD is only very slowly playing catch-up on opening their previously closed GPU documentation and getting drivers out there. Meanwhile, Intel's GPUs all have supported and fully-functional GPL'd drivers... Sounds like buying Intel is supporting "REAL change", rather than vague promises and half-assed support.

Having played with big helium filled balloons tethered to a ground station, I'm curious what their tethering solution looks like. We didn't need power running up/down the tether, so we got away with just using a kevlar parachute cord, but even the weight of 500 feet of relatively lightweight kevlar parachute cord caused some significant issues. Maybe you just get a bigger balloon?

Happy to do so - know anyone who sells AMD Linux boxes? Seems like ZAReason and System76 both sell mostly Intel stuff. (System76 is selling some seriously old-fashioned looking laptops these days, sorry to say. Love it that they run Linux, but you're not going to win any style points sitting behind one. Maybe cover it up with your neckbeard while you sip your tea.)

First console I ever saw played pong, and I have no idea what it was. This must have been like 1979 or so, hooked up to a TV set in America. Any ideas? The first console I ever started really spending scary amounts of time using though was an Atari. Good times. Frogger!

REF: https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/wiki/FFmpeg-versus-Libav

Found a good resource on the pros & cons of both. Basically ffmpeg integrates every change libav makes, libav doesn't do that with ffmpeg. Thus ffmpeg is basically a superset of libav, it does everything that libav does and more. New(and useful) APIs in ffmpeg do not make their way into libav, unfortunately. Seems that the ffmpeg developer is banned from the libav irc channel(lol).

Ubuntu isn't dead; it just smells that way.

Don't forget Slackware...it's like Gentoo in that it doesn't have systemd, but it's NOT like Gentoo in that you don't have to compile EVERYTHING from source.

And as a plus, Slackware doesn't even waste repository space supporting Gnome, and hasn't for a few versions. What seemed like a weird move at the time has shown Volk to be a bit of a visionary...

I am a little more confused with the Mozilla side of things. While they've gotten a little cocky, they still have a ways to go before it's nearly as bad as Chrome to those who have solid reasons for using Firefox in the first place. The real threat they face is folks like Pale Moon and company making a better Firefox than Firefox. Can't say I've seen good reason to switch though...any change they've made I didn't like I configured away with extensions, and that degree of configuration and extension support is precisely why I've been a Firefox user for years in the first place. Webkit will need some pretty serious enhancements it they hope to ever take the seat of my primary browser...

Yeah, I'm not surprised. Still, its silly to think that these guys have pure motives.

Dude, you're kind of selling me on this. :)

At that price level it beats most of the bike and cargo carrier alternatives, and is arguably more aerodynamic to boot. Even has good "reviews" on their site. Hmmmm....

Thanks!

Good points, but one more: it creates a paper-trail.

All the projects you are talking about are doing just fine.

A few nerds on slashdot/pipedot being angry != people moving en masse.

I mean, according to the internet, Ubuntu is dead, and yet it is still the most popular linux distro out there...

Getting caught-up in the market-share horse-race is a fool's errand that does no good for anyone.

I don't know about that. I always thought that this competition was at the heart of the "my-acid-test-results-are-better-than-yours" and the "my-js-engine-is-faster-than-yours" things a few years back, which I'd call good for the users ;-)

Now if what you mean is that this race would cause a browser to be abandoned whenever its market-share drops below a given threshold, then I agree it does no good.

The numbers tell a different story. Chrome's market-share can only minimally be at the expense of Firefox... i.e. Chrome is more popular now than Firefox EVER was, and Firefox hasn't fallen dramatically off of it's brief highs... Instead Chrome's incredible popularity is almost entirely at the expense of Internet Explorer. So, if something is "dying" it's Internet Explorer. And yet, none of them are for-profit works, so 100% or 1% market share is all the same, and it's unlikely that any of them will "die." Getting caught-up in the market-share horse-race is a fool's errand that does no good for anyone.

With Debian, the claim it is dying is even more ridiculous. There's really no distro out there, free of systemd, that has a snowball's chance in hell of getting corporate adoption. Companies are never going to build their own Gentoo systems, and hardware/software markers would never support it. Whatever complaints you may have against Debian does not translate into it dying, or even losing the slightest bit of market share. If someone has some numbers, showing Gentoo or FreeBSD overtaking Debian/Ubuntu/Redhat/Suse, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, the claim is just an utterly and totally ridiculous and laughable bit of trolling.

A bit ironic, I know, as it's FreeBSD that's supposed to be "dying"...

The parent makes some good points, and should be modded up.

I've been looking at the stats for my web sites lately, and over the past four years Firefox's usage has totally dropped off, while Chrome's has gone through the roof. This is consistently the case no matter which of my sites I look at, and even when I isolate the stats to specific geographical regions, or periods of time, or other such groupings.

Linux distros can die, too. Just look at Mandrake. It was once really popular. I think it was even at the top of DistroWatch's popularity list at one point. But now it's a has-been that is used by very few people. The same could happen to Debian.

When I look at my sites' stats and see Firefox go from 35% four years ago down to 7% today, while Chrome goes from 10% to 56% over the same time period, I think it's clear which project is dying and which is thriving. Hint: it's Firefox that's dying.