Not a big deal (Score: 3, Insightful) by norstadt@pipedot.org on 2014-03-23 16:23 (#RR) Countries spying on each other is not a bad thing. It reduces uncertainty about the target's intentions, and also reduces the incentive to act preemptively. Knowledgable folks think WWI might have been avoided if countries had better intelligence about one another. Re: Not a big deal (Score: 3, Insightful) by omoc@pipedot.org on 2014-03-23 17:35 (#RS) Imagine the US response if there would be credible evidence circulating in the press that the Chinese did this to the America. Sanctions would be on the table immediately; there is a double standard.Governments involved in corporate espionage was an "act of war" for the US in the pre-Snowden days. Just read about the hypocrisy http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-21772596 Re: Not a big deal (Score: 1) by norstadt@pipedot.org on 2014-03-24 04:44 (#RW) I followed the link and do not see the double standard. We bitch about their hacking, and they bitch about ours...Openness and transparency are generally praised, especially when they apply to governments. Their value is not automatically diminished by being the product of espionage. Of course it's different if a government trashes it's legitimacy by spying on its own citizens. But as far as I know, Chinese citizens and companies have no privacy rights with respect to the US government. Re: Not a big deal (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-03-24 09:15 (#RX) >"I followed the link and do not see the double standard."The link was not advertised as showing a double standard, just hypocrisy. I read it too, nowadays you can take the same text and exchange China with US which is indeed hypocrisy. Of course the US has complained about "Chinese hacking", but is there any hard evidence for that claim or are people just paraphrasing statements from the white house? We know how trustworthy their statements are, don't we. If they really would have found backdoors in Huawei products they could have just released exploits anonymously instead of false claims to discredit them publicly. They found nothing, they don't have any evidence, so we can assume they're liars.>"Chinese citizens and companies have no privacy rights with respect to the US government."Is this really the world you want to live in and subscribe to? You support your government in actively engaging in corporate espionage?? I'm really sick of Americans who think they have the right to do anything anywhere on this planet and get away with it. Re: Not a big deal (Score: 1) by norstadt@pipedot.org on 2014-03-24 17:10 (#SE) If those companies are bidding to supply critical network equipment, then yes, I'd like my government to breach corporate secrecy to figure out whether the equipment has back doors. That really is an issue of national security.FWIW, as a US citizen, I have no expectation of privacy vs. the Chinese, French, or Russian governments either. Your question is a little too broad though. Is this the world I want to live in? Any answer shorter than a book would be disappointing. Re: Not a big deal (Score: 1) by omoc@pipedot.org on 2014-03-25 16:29 (#TG) I'm pretty sure most governments (if not all) don't care about the average US citizen. For the war on "terrorism" the US seems to take note about everyone and everything. The point is, the tools for this war are now used to pursue (corporate?) US interests ruthlessly at all costs and most of you US citizens don't get, is that there will be consequences for this in the long run.
Re: Not a big deal (Score: 3, Insightful) by omoc@pipedot.org on 2014-03-23 17:35 (#RS) Imagine the US response if there would be credible evidence circulating in the press that the Chinese did this to the America. Sanctions would be on the table immediately; there is a double standard.Governments involved in corporate espionage was an "act of war" for the US in the pre-Snowden days. Just read about the hypocrisy http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-21772596 Re: Not a big deal (Score: 1) by norstadt@pipedot.org on 2014-03-24 04:44 (#RW) I followed the link and do not see the double standard. We bitch about their hacking, and they bitch about ours...Openness and transparency are generally praised, especially when they apply to governments. Their value is not automatically diminished by being the product of espionage. Of course it's different if a government trashes it's legitimacy by spying on its own citizens. But as far as I know, Chinese citizens and companies have no privacy rights with respect to the US government. Re: Not a big deal (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-03-24 09:15 (#RX) >"I followed the link and do not see the double standard."The link was not advertised as showing a double standard, just hypocrisy. I read it too, nowadays you can take the same text and exchange China with US which is indeed hypocrisy. Of course the US has complained about "Chinese hacking", but is there any hard evidence for that claim or are people just paraphrasing statements from the white house? We know how trustworthy their statements are, don't we. If they really would have found backdoors in Huawei products they could have just released exploits anonymously instead of false claims to discredit them publicly. They found nothing, they don't have any evidence, so we can assume they're liars.>"Chinese citizens and companies have no privacy rights with respect to the US government."Is this really the world you want to live in and subscribe to? You support your government in actively engaging in corporate espionage?? I'm really sick of Americans who think they have the right to do anything anywhere on this planet and get away with it. Re: Not a big deal (Score: 1) by norstadt@pipedot.org on 2014-03-24 17:10 (#SE) If those companies are bidding to supply critical network equipment, then yes, I'd like my government to breach corporate secrecy to figure out whether the equipment has back doors. That really is an issue of national security.FWIW, as a US citizen, I have no expectation of privacy vs. the Chinese, French, or Russian governments either. Your question is a little too broad though. Is this the world I want to live in? Any answer shorter than a book would be disappointing. Re: Not a big deal (Score: 1) by omoc@pipedot.org on 2014-03-25 16:29 (#TG) I'm pretty sure most governments (if not all) don't care about the average US citizen. For the war on "terrorism" the US seems to take note about everyone and everything. The point is, the tools for this war are now used to pursue (corporate?) US interests ruthlessly at all costs and most of you US citizens don't get, is that there will be consequences for this in the long run.
Re: Not a big deal (Score: 1) by norstadt@pipedot.org on 2014-03-24 04:44 (#RW) I followed the link and do not see the double standard. We bitch about their hacking, and they bitch about ours...Openness and transparency are generally praised, especially when they apply to governments. Their value is not automatically diminished by being the product of espionage. Of course it's different if a government trashes it's legitimacy by spying on its own citizens. But as far as I know, Chinese citizens and companies have no privacy rights with respect to the US government. Re: Not a big deal (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-03-24 09:15 (#RX) >"I followed the link and do not see the double standard."The link was not advertised as showing a double standard, just hypocrisy. I read it too, nowadays you can take the same text and exchange China with US which is indeed hypocrisy. Of course the US has complained about "Chinese hacking", but is there any hard evidence for that claim or are people just paraphrasing statements from the white house? We know how trustworthy their statements are, don't we. If they really would have found backdoors in Huawei products they could have just released exploits anonymously instead of false claims to discredit them publicly. They found nothing, they don't have any evidence, so we can assume they're liars.>"Chinese citizens and companies have no privacy rights with respect to the US government."Is this really the world you want to live in and subscribe to? You support your government in actively engaging in corporate espionage?? I'm really sick of Americans who think they have the right to do anything anywhere on this planet and get away with it. Re: Not a big deal (Score: 1) by norstadt@pipedot.org on 2014-03-24 17:10 (#SE) If those companies are bidding to supply critical network equipment, then yes, I'd like my government to breach corporate secrecy to figure out whether the equipment has back doors. That really is an issue of national security.FWIW, as a US citizen, I have no expectation of privacy vs. the Chinese, French, or Russian governments either. Your question is a little too broad though. Is this the world I want to live in? Any answer shorter than a book would be disappointing. Re: Not a big deal (Score: 1) by omoc@pipedot.org on 2014-03-25 16:29 (#TG) I'm pretty sure most governments (if not all) don't care about the average US citizen. For the war on "terrorism" the US seems to take note about everyone and everything. The point is, the tools for this war are now used to pursue (corporate?) US interests ruthlessly at all costs and most of you US citizens don't get, is that there will be consequences for this in the long run.
Re: Not a big deal (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-03-24 09:15 (#RX) >"I followed the link and do not see the double standard."The link was not advertised as showing a double standard, just hypocrisy. I read it too, nowadays you can take the same text and exchange China with US which is indeed hypocrisy. Of course the US has complained about "Chinese hacking", but is there any hard evidence for that claim or are people just paraphrasing statements from the white house? We know how trustworthy their statements are, don't we. If they really would have found backdoors in Huawei products they could have just released exploits anonymously instead of false claims to discredit them publicly. They found nothing, they don't have any evidence, so we can assume they're liars.>"Chinese citizens and companies have no privacy rights with respect to the US government."Is this really the world you want to live in and subscribe to? You support your government in actively engaging in corporate espionage?? I'm really sick of Americans who think they have the right to do anything anywhere on this planet and get away with it. Re: Not a big deal (Score: 1) by norstadt@pipedot.org on 2014-03-24 17:10 (#SE) If those companies are bidding to supply critical network equipment, then yes, I'd like my government to breach corporate secrecy to figure out whether the equipment has back doors. That really is an issue of national security.FWIW, as a US citizen, I have no expectation of privacy vs. the Chinese, French, or Russian governments either. Your question is a little too broad though. Is this the world I want to live in? Any answer shorter than a book would be disappointing. Re: Not a big deal (Score: 1) by omoc@pipedot.org on 2014-03-25 16:29 (#TG) I'm pretty sure most governments (if not all) don't care about the average US citizen. For the war on "terrorism" the US seems to take note about everyone and everything. The point is, the tools for this war are now used to pursue (corporate?) US interests ruthlessly at all costs and most of you US citizens don't get, is that there will be consequences for this in the long run.
Re: Not a big deal (Score: 1) by norstadt@pipedot.org on 2014-03-24 17:10 (#SE) If those companies are bidding to supply critical network equipment, then yes, I'd like my government to breach corporate secrecy to figure out whether the equipment has back doors. That really is an issue of national security.FWIW, as a US citizen, I have no expectation of privacy vs. the Chinese, French, or Russian governments either. Your question is a little too broad though. Is this the world I want to live in? Any answer shorter than a book would be disappointing. Re: Not a big deal (Score: 1) by omoc@pipedot.org on 2014-03-25 16:29 (#TG) I'm pretty sure most governments (if not all) don't care about the average US citizen. For the war on "terrorism" the US seems to take note about everyone and everything. The point is, the tools for this war are now used to pursue (corporate?) US interests ruthlessly at all costs and most of you US citizens don't get, is that there will be consequences for this in the long run.
Re: Not a big deal (Score: 1) by omoc@pipedot.org on 2014-03-25 16:29 (#TG) I'm pretty sure most governments (if not all) don't care about the average US citizen. For the war on "terrorism" the US seems to take note about everyone and everything. The point is, the tools for this war are now used to pursue (corporate?) US interests ruthlessly at all costs and most of you US citizens don't get, is that there will be consequences for this in the long run.