EU referendum: Michael Gove on BBC's Question Time EU Special - as it happened

Andrew Sparrow and Claire Phipps

from on 2016-06-15 20:13 (#1H89E)

All the day's news as chancellor warns of 30bn black hole if UK leaves the EU, and Nigel Farage leads pro-Brexit flotilla along the Thames

9.10pm BST

No, because I think that what we have heard from the Remain campaign throughout this whole referendum have been dire warnings of the terrible consequences of the British people just taking control of our own destiny.

And, the truth is, if we vote to Leave we will be in an economically stronger position. We will be able to take back some of the money that we currently give to the European Union and we can invest it in our priorities.

If we leave the European Union, yes there will be bumps in the road, inevitably, but we will be in a better position to deal with them.

8.48pm BST

Michael Gove has subtly changed what he has been saying about his father's business since he appeared on Sky News earlier this month.

In his Sky News interview Gove implied the business went bust while his father owned it. He said:

My father had a fishing business in Aberdeen destroyed by the European Union and the Common Fisheries Policy, the European Union "

If you heard earlier, Faisal, I know what it's like to see someone lose their job as a result of the European Union. I saw my father lose his job, I saw his business go to the wall, I saw 24 people who he employed also lose their jobs.

One of reasons I was able to go to university was because of the sacrifices my family made. One of the things I know about the European Union is that the European Union can destroy jobs. My dad ran a fish business in Aberdeen. The common fisheries policy unfortunately led to the devastation of fishing in Scotland. My dad had to close his business. As a result something that he been built up by by grandfather and maintained by my dad disappeared. So my dad suffered ...

My dad has been clear, he was clear to the BBC on Sunday night, he was clear to me when I was a boy, that the business that he invested so much care and time in had to close as a result of the common fisheries policy.

8.23pm BST

This is a full transcript of the interview the Guardian had by telephone with Ernest Gove, Michael Gove's father, on the morning Tuesday 14 June. It has been slightly edited to remove verbal tics and some slight repetition.

Ernest Gove: "Hello?"

8.01pm BST

Here is the key quote from Michael Gove about the Guardian's story about his father contradicting claims made by Gove himself about the family's fish processing firm in Aberdeen being destroyed by the European Union's fisheries policies. Gove told Question Time:

My dad was rung up by a reporter from the Guardian who tried to put words into his mouth but my dad has been clear, he was clear to the BBC on Sunday night, he was clear to me when I was a boy, that the business that he invested so much care and time in had to close as a result of the common fisheries policy.

I remember when my dad ran his business. Two of his employees were lads who were in a care home. They did not have parents. My dad took them in, gave them a job and allowed them to work in his business and to sleep there in a spare room that he made for them. That business closed. Those boys lost their home as a result of what happened. I know what my dad went through when I was a schoolboy and I don't think that the Guardian or anyone else should belittle his suffering or try to get a 79-year-old man to serve their agenda instead of agreeing and being proud of what his son does.

7.51pm BST

Gove on Question Time - Snap verdict: Michael Gove's appearance on Sky News's EU referendum special two weeks ago was generally viewed as a success. Personally I felt that his failure to answer key economic questions was a fatal handicap, but generally commentators felt he came across as measured, likeable and persuasive.

Tonight did not go quite so smoothly. It did not go badly either, but Gove sounded just a little more edgy and thin-skinned, and at times some of his answers sounded glib. Question Time with David Dimbleby is in a league of its own when it comes to getting members of a studio audience to interrogate politicians in a forensic way, and not just a shouty way, and Gove had several exchanges with people where his answers clearly fell short (eg the woman with the translation business). It was also interesting to note that immigration, which is normally an easy subject for leave, was quite tricky for him tonight, with Dimbleby highlighting the government's failure to use its powers to curb non-EU migration and a Spanish woman trying to make Gove ashamed of his stance.

7.32pm BST

Q: Do you regret using the 350m a week figure for the amount the EU costs the UK?

Gove says some people have criticised. He says that is the amount of money the EU controls. Some of it comes back. But the rebate has been cut in the past, and it will be cut in the future again if we stay in.

7.26pm BST

Gove says he does not favour deporting anyone who is hard working.

But he says a Bank of England report showed wages were being held down by immigration. It is not right to set community against community, he says.

7.24pm BST

A member of the audience complains about how immigrants like her are treated in this country. "We are not the enemy, Mr Gove," she says.

Gove says he understands the woman's point of view. He is in favour of migration, he says. He just wants to control the numbers.

7.21pm BST

Gove says he thinks we can secure exit from the EU by 2020.

And we can get immigration down in the next parliament.

7.19pm BST

Gove says under EU law there are criminals here we cannot deport. If we leave the EU, we can have an Australian-style points system.

7.18pm BST

Q: Are you scaremongering when you say Turkey will join the EU?

Absolutely not, says Gove. He says the Financial Times has a story today saying moves to get Turkey into the EU are being accelerated.

7.15pm BST

Q: If we get a leave vote, are you confident a prime minister who campaigned for remain will deliver what the country wants?

Gove says the referendum is about giving instructions to the prime minister. David Cameron has promised he will abide by the decision of the people.

7.11pm BST

Q: I study English literature, and the manipulation of words. All I've heard from you is manipulation.

Gove says he read English too. Vote Leave has put forward a plan today for what would happen. He says he was able to go to university because of his family's sacrifices. He says his father lost his fishing business because of EU policies. The EU is a job-destroying machine. That is a tragedy.

7.06pm BST

Q: I run a small business and more than 50% of my trade is with the EU. How can you guarantee that I won't lose out?

Gove says there will be no reason to think they will impose tariffs. It will be in their interests not to impose tariffs.

7.03pm BST

Q: As a physicist I am terrified what will happen to British science if we succeed. What will we do when our funding dries up?

Gove says some physicists think we will be better off outside the EU. And all the EU money going to universities is our money in the first place.

7.00pm BST

Q: The risks are economic. What trading relationship will we have? You want us to lose autonomy, and lose influence over decision making. You are off your rocker if you think we are better off.

Gove says the Germans sell more cars to us than we sell to them. Germany won't punish its car workers.

6.57pm BST

Q: Everything in life has risks. What are the risks of leaving?

Gove says the questioner is right. But he thinks we will be better off out. Yes, there will be bumps in the road ...

6.55pm BST

Q: If you value the NHS so much, where was your support for junior doctors?

Gove says the NHS will be stronger if we leave. It will have more money, and be under less strain.

6.54pm BST

Q: Why are you dismissing the views of economic experts?

Gove says they were wrong about the euro and the ERM.

6.50pm BST

Q: If we vote to leave the EU, will you support George Osborne's punishment budget?

No, says Michael Gove.

6.46pm BST

David Dimbleby is introducing the programme.

They are recording from Nottingham.

6.44pm BST

Tonight's Question Time is going out live. Normally it records an hour or so before transmission.

6.42pm BST

The Labour MP Emma Reynolds has put out a statement, via Britain Stronger in Europe, welcoming the fact that Michael Gove's father has said the EU was not to blame for his business going bust - even though this is what Gove himself has claimed. She said:

I'm glad that Michael Gove's father has made clear the EU did not destroy his fishing business.

From Boris' bananas to Gove's fishy tales, the Leave campaign has dodgy claims and dishonesty at its core.

6.35pm BST

The BBC's Question Time EU Special with Michael Gove starts in 10 minutes.

Preparations are underway for our first #EURef special with Michael Gove live at 6:45pm on @BBCOne. Join us! #bbcqt pic.twitter.com/3ogjpXeFEA

6.08pm BST

6.03pm BST

And this is from the SNP MSP Gillian Martin on the Michael Gove story.

Michael Gove has been caught out - he should call it a day on his attempts to spin a tale about his family history.

If Mr Gove was as concerned by the plight of the Scottish fishing industry as he says, then he'd never have joined the political party that viewed it "expendable" in the first place. It's not the EU that's to blame for the difficulties of the fishing industry, but the indifference of the UK government who sold the industry out.

5.59pm BST

Here is the Lib Dem MPS Tavish Scott on the Guardian's revelations about Michael Gove's father denying claims made by his son that the family's fish processing firm in Aberdeen was destroyed by the European Union's fisheries policies. Scott said:

Michael Gove's father has just slapped him round the face with a wet fish. He spent hours this week telling anyone who would listen that the EU was to blame for the demise of his family business but now it seems there is something more than a little bit fishy about his claims.

5.54pm BST

MPs have been debating a Labour motion on the economic benefits of the EU. Earlier, in response to a question BTL, I said it looked a bit dull, but reading the Press Association coverage, I see there were some good lines in it. Here are some highlights.

There is a well-founded concern that withdrawal will put jobs, investment, trade and employment at risk.

The unpredictability of the outcome of this leap in the dark has united virtually every economist and economic institution of any standing from the IMF to the OECD, the Bank of England to the Institute of Fiscal Studies, to express their concerns at the risk to the economy.

I've spent a lot of time with a lot of international trade negotiators - these are very unsentimental folk.

And the idea, it's almost laughable simply to say it, that you can pull out of the world's largest economic bloc and then say to these unsentimental folk - who have driven such a hard bargain with that bloc of 500m - 'We want not just the same, we want better deals, a better set of conditions on behalf of an economy of only 60m'.

The world's supply chain has globalised itself and I have to say to you if I'm honest, when I listen to the arguments of some of our opponents in this debate, while they frame them in terms of a hostility to the European Union, I do sometimes wonder whether what I'm hearing is a hostility to the globalisation of our economy.

The reason I will be voting to remain in is because frankly I don't trust the Germans and the French to run Europe without us being there at that table keeping them at close heel. To my mind our job in Europe is to maintain the balance of power and that is utterly crucial. Because when we have walked away from Europe we have found ourselves having to pay for that with an enormous amount of blood and an enormous amount of treasure.

I do believe in peace and I do believe in good relations. What really troubles me however is when the majority voting system and the decisions are taken behind closed doors are so manifestly undemocratic, it is impossible to justify, and it becomes a kind of dictatorship behind closed doors.

We in this House make our decisions based upon speeches which are made in public, which are reported, the votes are there, we're held to be accountable. This is not the case in the European Union.

Whilst I cannot say that Neil died as a result of the CFP [Common Fisheries Policy], I can say it contributed to the economic pressure he felt when deciding to fish alone.

5.31pm BST

These figures, from YouGov's Joe Twyman, are quite telling.

Which groups + organisations do Leave supporters trust on #EURef? Generally none. Academics most trusted for Remain. pic.twitter.com/3EpFtAtsAD

Over two thirds of Leave supporters (+ quarter of Remainers) say it is wrong to rely too much on 'experts'. #EURef pic.twitter.com/PahJsgFiJc

5.26pm BST

My colleague Severin Carrell has sent me more about Michael Gove's father denying claims made by his son that the family's fish processing firm in Aberdeen was destroyed by the European Union's fisheries policies. Here is some extra material left out from Severin's story for space reasons because it was written for publication in the paper.

Other senior figures in the Scottish fishing industry said Aberdeen's fishing businesses suffered too from competition from Peterhead, which was offering far better facilities for the fishing fleet, in the 1980s - the time when Gove gave up his company EE Gove and Sons.

That competition came at the same time as Aberdeen's port facilities were under heavy pressure from vessels needed in the rapidly expanding North Sea oil and gas industry; industrial unrest from dock workers, and the impact of the cod wars.

4.58pm BST

Sky's Beth Rigby has a list of the 65 Tory MP who are now saying they would vote against George Osborne's hypothetical post-Brexit budget. This morning there were 57 Tory MPs on the list.

List of the 65 MPS publicly opposing Osborne & his #Brexit budget pic.twitter.com/xeS2KxqNDB

4.47pm BST

According to the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg, 65 Tory MPs have now signed the letter saying they would not back George Osborne's hypothetical post-Brexit budget.

65 Tory MPs have now signed letter saying Osborne's position 'untenable' if he tried to force thro brexit budget

4.39pm BST

Michael Gove's father has contradicted claims made by his son that the family's fish processing firm in Aberdeen was destroyed by the European Union's fisheries policies, Severin Carrell reports.

Here's his story.

Michael Gove's father has contradicted claims made by his son that the family's fish processing firm in Aberdeen was destroyed by the European Union's fisheries policies.

Ernest Gove told the Guardian he had sold the business voluntarily because the fishing industry in Aberdeen was being hit by a range of different factors. Those included competition for space in the port from North Sea oil vessels, the Icelandic cod wars, dockworkers' strikes and new 200-mile limits to control over-fishing.

4.13pm BST

John Swinney, Scotland's deputy first minister, has said pledges that a Brexit vote would lead to more powers for the Scottish parliament are a "Tory con trick," after Scottish leave campaigners said Holyrood would be liberated by leaving the UK.

Speaking after former SNP deputy leader Jim Sillars and ex-Tory MSP Brian Monteith said a Brexit vote would unshackle Holyrood from the EU (see 1.24pm), Swinney said:

Those powers would go straight back from Brussels to Westminster, who would have absolutely no obligation to devolve anything.

The leave campaign is led by the very same people who have, at every opportunity, resisted the transfer of powers to Scotland - so their hollow offers of more powers are nothing more than a Tory con-trick.

4.10pm BST

4.07pm BST

The European commission has today put out a statement about relations with Turkey. It is mostly about the deal designed to stop migrants crossing from Turkey to Greece, but it includes a paragraph on accession (Turkey joining the EU) which says: "Preparatory work continues at an accelerated pace to make progress on five Chapters, without prejudice to Member States' positions in accordance with the existing rules."

The significance of this seems minimal, but Vote Leave has issued a press notice about it. Matthew Elliott, Vote Leave's chief executive, said:

David Cameron wants to "pave the road from Ankara". It's disingenuous for him to claim it's not going to happen when he is campaigning for it, when the commission in their own words are accelerating the bid and when UK taxpayers are paying money to make it happen. Voters want to take back control, not see a border free zone from the English Channel to Syria.

3.40pm BST

This, from the Political Patridge twitter account, has received almost 2,000 retweets.

pic.twitter.com/VNopK1P2Q9

3.38pm BST

And, equally predictably, the New Statesman has come out for Remain in this week's edition. Here's an extract from its editorial.

There have been moments in Britain's history when the country could have withdrawn in relatively benign circumstances. This is not one of them. Should Scotland vote to remain while the rest of the UK votes to leave, a second independence referendum and the break-up of the Union could result. Brexit would threaten the hard-won peace in Northern Ireland by encouraging the return of border controls. The UK's departure would embolden fascists and populists across the continent, most notably Marine Le Pen in France, and enhance Russia's revanchist ambitions. It is far from inconceivable that Brexit could set in train the break-up of the EU.

3.37pm BST

To no one's surprise, the Spectator has come out in favour of Brexit in this week's edition. Here's an extract from its editorial.

The value of sovereignty cannot be measured by any economist's formula. Adam Smith, the father of economics, first observed that the prosperity of a country is decided by whether it keeps its 'laws and institutions' healthy. This basic insight explains why nations thrive or fail, and has been the great secret of British success: intellectual, artistic, scientific and industrial. The principles of the Magna Carta and achievements of the Glorious Revolution led to our emergence as a world power. To pass up the chance to stop our laws being overridden by Luxembourg and our democracy eroded by Brussels would be a derogation of duty to this generation and the next.

3.29pm BST

Idris Elbais backing Remain.

My parents immigrated to the UK, worked hard and made a contribution..ME...on that basis VOTE IN....#EUDebate https://t.co/MpGd1yAW3g

3.24pm BST

The Trade Union and Socialist Coalition (TUSC), the leftwing group backing Brexit, has put out a statement saying if necessary Labour MPs should vote against the post-Brexit budget measures George Osborne is proposing. In a statement Dave Nellist, the former Labour MP who chairs TUSC, said there would be no point leaving the EU only to carry on with austerity.

Ultimately, Brexit on a capitalist basis will produce broadly the same results as Remain on a capitalist basis - continued austerity, attacks on wages and living standards, cuts and privatisation of public services.

That's why TUSC stands for an economy based on democratic public ownership of the major companies and banks (see http://www.tusc.org.uk/policy), a vision of a democratic socialist society rooted in Labour's old 'Clause Four'.

3.15pm BST

Six former disability ministers - three Tory, three Labour - have united to sign a joint letter to the Guardian saying that the rights of disabled people are "best protected and advanced by the UK's continued membership of the European Union". The list is headed by William Hague, who took the landmark Disability Discrimination Act 1995, through parliament, and it includes Alistair Burt, who is currently a health minister. The others are Dame Margaret Hodge, Maria Miller, Maria Eagle and Dame Anne McGuire.

Here is an extract.

All of our governments have striven to close the disability employment gap. The Disability Discrimination Act 1995 inspired the European Union to adopt EU-wide measures to tackle workplace discrimination against disabled people. In turn, the EU has helped improve our law, ensuring that it covers all employers irrespective of size and offers protection to those associated with a disabled person, particularly helping Britain's six million carers. Between 2010-14 EU money also supported over 430,000 disabled people -235 disabled people every day - to take steps to move towards paid work.

The single market continues to play a vital role in opening up the world to disabled people, building on the Disability Discrimination Act 2005 by pushing the frontiers of accessible travel, products, services and the Internet. It doesn't make financial or practical sense for the UK to progress these areas in isolation. For example, there would have been little advantage in the UK legislating to demand assistance for disabled people when travelling by air, if this meant people being able to board a plane in Manchester, yet unable to disembark in Malaga. EU-wide measures enable disabled people to travel on business or holiday with much greater confidence.

3.05pm BST

Labour's deputy leader Tom Watson has said that Brexit would be "even worse than Tory government" and pleaded with voters not to vote Leave because they wanted to "give David Cameron a bloody nose".

In a speech to Labour activists in Kings Cross, London, Watson said: "Please don't vote Leave to spite David Cameron and end up blighting the country instead."

2.27pm BST

Channel 4 News's Michael Crick has picked up an intriguing rumour.

Farage friend says he's been approached by Boris camp about job in Johnson govt & place in Lords to avoid fighting possible Thanet by-elect

@MichaelLCrick Farage denies he's been approached by Boris camp about job in Govt, but repeatedly refuses to deny he'd take such a job

2.24pm BST

This budget takes the mid-point of the IFS's estimates, 30 billion, as the likely deterioration in the public finances and shows the types of trade-offs involved in dealing with such a deficit in 2019-20.

One plausible scenario shows that:

We have both been chancellor as the economy has faced very difficult times. We know what happens when we lose control of the economy.

We both had to deal with the consequences of the public finances collapsing and the difficult decisions we then had to make.

Will you take this opportunity to condemn the opportunism of 57 of your colleagues who are pro-Leave - these are members who backed the bedroom tax, backed cutting disability benefits and slashing care for the elderly - who suddenly have now had a Damascene conversion to the anti-austerity movement? Do you have any message for them? Do you have any message for them at all?

Nobody wants to have an emergency budget, nobody wants to have cuts in public services, nobody wants to have tax increases. But I would say this - there's only one thing worse than not addressing a crisis in your public finances, addressing it through a budget, and that is ignoring it. Because if you ignore a crisis in your public finances, you see your economy go into a tailspin, you see confidence in your country reduced. We can avoid all of this by voting Remain next week.

2.04pm BST

Irish rugby international Rory Best has come out for the Remain side in the EU referendum.The Ulster player has sent a tweet from Ireland's tour of South Africa supporting an In vote.

After the Irish victory over the Springboks, Best tweeted from Cape Town: "Thursday 23rd June is an important date for farmers&the agrifood sector. Support them by voting to stay in EU."

1.46pm BST

Here is a Guardian video of PMQs highlights.

1.36pm BST

Britain Stronger in Europe have now sent out a link to the Brexit budget document published by George Osborne and Alistair Darling earlier.

1.29pm BST

The flotilla arrived at Tower Bridge as Greenpeace attacked one of the largest trawlers in the protest, the Christina S from Peterhead, over its role in a 63m fisheries fraud scandal four years ago, the worst yet involving the UK fisheries industry.

The joint skippers of the vessel, Ernest Simpson and his son Allan Simpson, were each fined 65,000 and had a total of 725,000 confiscated by Scottish courts in September 2012 after they admitted illegally landing mackerel and herring in Peterhead and Shetland.

1.28pm BST

Here's some video footage from the battle of the Thames.

1.24pm BST

Pro-Brexit campaigners in Scotland, led by the former SNP deputy leader Jim Sillars and ex-Tory MSP Brian Monteith, have claimed the country would have far more "democratic sovereignty" and money outside the EU.

They released a pamphlet through the Leave.eu campaign headed by Nigel Farage just as an Ipsos Mori poll for STV found the gap between the in and out vote in Scotland had narrowed sharply, by 13 points over the last six weeks.

1.17pm BST

Here are some more pictures from the flotilla.

1.10pm BST

On the waves outside parliament, fishermen claim they have boarded Geldof's boat "to tell him the truth". A police boat is alongside but the pro-Brexit fishing vessel Wayward Lad has pulled up to Geldof's pleasure cruiser.

Parliamentarians are looking on from the terrace, three helicopters, including police hovering above.

1.10pm BST

Nigel Farage has attacked Bob Geldof's aquatic intervention as "ignorant" and "insulting".

"He doesn't know anything about the common fisheries policy," he told the Guardian. "You can't reform it from within. You can't change it. There is nothing you can do apart from leave."

1.07pm BST

Angus Robertson, the SNP leader, gets two questions at PMQs, but they were left out in my minute by minute coverage because I was doing the snap summary. So here they are.

Robertson started by asking about the referendum.

Does the prime minister agree with me if we want to protect jobs, if we want to protect public services, we must remain in the European Union?

I do believe the most important argument is about the future of our economy and it seems obvious to me today we have full access to a market of 500m people, for an economy like Scotland which is such a big exporting economy, there's no way we would get a better deal outside that market than on the inside.

Decisions to cut public spending in the UK budget do have an impact, through Barnett, on Scotland. To anyone who says these warnings could be wrong or inaccurate - there were warnings about the oil price before the Scottish referendum, it turned out actually to be worse than the experts warned.

12.41pm BST

Christopher Chope, a Conservative, says he is looking forward to the UK voting for Brexit, so that he can vote against Osborne's vindictive budget.

Cameron says he hopes people will vote to remain in the EU.

12.39pm BST

Asked about the North Middlesex A&E unit, Cameron says the health secretary is monitoring this closely. But if we stay in the EU, there will be more money for the NHS.

12.38pm BST

Nigel Adams, a Conserative, says there has been "hysterical scaremongering" during the EU referendum. Will Cameron assure people he will follow the results on the referendum.

Yes, says Cameron. He says out means out of the single market too. He says he would say to anyone still in doubt, to anyone uncertain, don't risk it.

12.37pm BST

Tim Farron, the Lib Dem leader, says the wealthy elite fuelling Leave will not be harmed by the interest rate rise that will follow Brexit. Would Cameron advise his Tory colleagues that there is a long-term economic plan on offer on Thursday - voting remain.

Cameron says it says volumes about the Remain campaign that the Lib Dems, Labour, the Greens and others are joining him in backing staying in the EU.

12.35pm BST

Jack Lopresti, a Conservative, says he hopes Britain will vote to leave the EU. Cameron himself said Britain could survive outside, he says.

Cameron says of course Britain can survive outside the EU. But the question is, how are we best off? On all the arguments, we are best off in, he says.

12.34pm BST

Siobhain McDonagh, the Labour MP, says M&S workers are due to face an effective pay cut because of the "national living wage".

Cameron says he does not know about the situation at M&S. But he wants to see pay go up, not down. M&S won't attract good staff if they cut pay.

12.32pm BST

Cameron says we will enhance the power of Britain by staying in the EU.

12.31pm BST

Alasdair McDonnell, the SDLP MP, says the SDLP is backing a Remain vote. The return of a hard border with Ireland would be bad for Northern Ireland.

Cameron says is the UK votes to stay in, we know what the situation is. If we were to leave, and make a big issue about borders, then there would be a land border with the EU in Ireland. You would need new border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland. Or you would have to have controls on people leaving Northern Ireland and coming to the mainland. We can avoid these risks by voting to stay, he says.

12.29pm BST

Robert Jenrick, a Conservative, says his parents set up a manufacturing business. Manufacturers are worried. They will have to sell to the EU, but they won't have a say in deciding EU standards.

Cameron says Jenrick is making a v good point. If you leave the EU, and don't have say over making those rules, you lose control; you don't gain control.

12.28pm BST

Labour's Ruth Smeeth says EU funds have helped her constituency. Does Cameron agree that a Brexit vote would leave us picking up the pieces of a broken economy for years to come.

Cameron agree. The UK would have to spend two years leaving the EU. Then it would have to negotiate a trade deal, with could take seven years. So overall it could take a decade to get a new trade deal.

12.25pm BST

Labour's Carolyn Harris says leaving the EU would be too big a risk.

Cameron says he agrees. If the pound were to fall, prices would rise and the cost of holidays would rise.

12.24pm BST

David Nuttall, a Conservative, asks when the government will get net migration below 100,000.

Cameron says EU migration was in balance last in 2008. He says the government has introduced sensible ways of reducing immigration. Leaving the EU would not be a sensible way, he says.

12.22pm BST

Cameron says we need to ensure migrants are working. But we should celebrate the contribution they make.

12.20pm BST

PMQs - Snap verdict: A peculiar PMQs, in some respects more interesting than usual, and perhaps most remarkable because Cameron seemed uncharacteristically hesitant and unfocused. Is the pressure getting to him? It would be very odd if it isn't, although Cameron was only unfocused relative to his usual suave professionalism. It is not really a day for normal party politics and Corbyn responded to that with a series of sharp, reasonable questions that did him credit, but did not go in for the kill. His best line was the one branding the 57 Tory MPs who are opposing George Osborne as converts to anti-austerity. Cameron enjoyed that - perhaps because he has little else to smile about at the moment.

12.14pm BST

Corbyn asks about the flotilla coming up the Thames. He says EU reforms gave new powers to member states over fishing quotes. The UK government has given two thirds of them to just three companies.

Cameron says the value of the UK fishing industry has increased in recent years. No country in the world has a trade agreement with the EU that does not involve a tariff on fish.

12.09pm BST

Corbyn says he is concerned about the expoitation of migrant workers. Will Cameron commit to outlawing agencies advertising jobs only abroad?

Cameron says he and Corbyn agree on the evils of modern slavery. The government will continue to take action to ensure that people are paid what they should be paid. He wants people to get a fair day's pay for a fair day's work.

12.06pm BST

Jeremy Corbyn also offers sympathy to the relatives of those killed in Orlando. He attended a vigil to express his horror on Monday, he says.

He says three years ago there was agreement for implementation of Section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act. Cameron said three years ago MPs did too much cosying up to Murdoch. Will Cameron keep his promise and implement Leveson in full.

12.03pm BST

Peter Aldous, a Conservative, says a firm has put on hold plans to build a factory in Lowestoft.

Cameron says he shares Aldous's concern about this. Many firms come to the UK to get access to the single market. He hopes people will vote to put our place in that beyond doubt.

12.01pm BST

David Cameron starts with sending his sympathies to the families and friends of those killed in the Orlando attack. It highlights the need to fight the poisonous ideology of Daesh, he says.

11.59am BST

And this.

Earliest I've ever seen Cameron come in for #PMQs, before 11.45am

11.59am BST

This is from the Labour MP Tom Blenkinsop.

The body language of Cameron and Grayling on the front bench at the moment can only be described as both fascinating and awkward #pmqs

11.58am BST

So many MPs wearing IN or OUT badges in the commons chamber for #pmqs - it's becoming more of a question why someone ISN'T wearing one!

11.57am BST

#PMQs @ 12 -q Remainy order paper, tho Speaker calling outers: My panel: @GiselaStuart @andreajenkyns @joannaccherry pic.twitter.com/MzaHJFGSJy

11.56am BST

Cameron's already in the chamber for #PMQs, glasses on, scrawling on his notes

11.56am BST

PMQs starts in five minutes.

There is no PMQs next week, so it is quite possible - given the rise in support for Leave in the polls - that David Cameron may have announced his resignation by the time he next faces Jeremy Corbyn across the despatch box in the Commons.

11.53am BST

Nigel Farage has tweeted this about Bob Geldof.

Multimillionaire Bob Geldof on the Thames mocking our declining fishing industry and families who have had their lives destroyed by the EU.

11.49am BST

Bob Geldof has pulled alongside Farage's boat and blasted "I'm In With The In Crowd" over a rig of four ear bleedingly loud speakers before taking the mic and declaring: "Nigel, you are a fraud."

The Leave campaigners tried to shout back: "shame on you" but were drowned out.

11.46am BST

Q: 57 Tory MPs have effectively expressed no confidence in you. Would you be around to pass these measures?

Osborne says measures like this would have to be passed. He says the only thing worse than not taking action would be not taking action. People need to know this, he says.

11.44am BST

The Osborne/Darling event is now on BBC News.

Q: Are you sacrificing your job to win the referendum?

If you create a mess, you have to clear it up. Far better not to create a mess in the first place.

11.40am BST

The Brexit debate has taken to the waves. As we wait for Nigel Farage to join a flotilla of fishing vessels campaigning for Brexit by sailing upstream to the Palace of Westminster, a smaller fleet of Remain campaigners have embarked on vessels to come alongside, I think that's the nautical term, and shout them down. Farage's flotilla of about six vessels tethered near the north bank of the Thames near London Bridge l were just buzzed by the Sarpedon pleasure cruiser stuffed with black flag waving and jeering In campaigners and followed by more on a couple of inflatable ribs.

11.37am BST

This is what Alistair Darling, the Labour former chancellor, has been saying at the Brexit budget event with George Osborne.

Darling says conventional party politics is "on hold" until next Thurs, saying the vote will determine Britain for a generation

Economic security and social justice go hand in hand, Darling says, that's why Labour is backing this

Beyond doubt that Brexit would tip UK back into recession, Darling says. Look at what is happening in the real world.

Once you light a blue touch paper on the economy, you can't be sure where it will end up, but an explosion will follow, says Darling

I'm even more worried now, much more worried than in 2008, says Darling pic.twitter.com/FTCkCoGxYB

This would not be the only emergency budget, Darling says, says he suspects it would be first of many after #Brexit

11.33am BST

Rolls-Royce has written to its staff saying it wants Britain to stay in the EU.

Here's the Guardian's story.

This is yet further evidence of the benefits membership of the largest single market brings to British workers and businesses. Nine out of ten economists agree that Britain is better off in and that a vote to leave the EU is a threat to jobs and the economy.

Rolls-Royce is a world-leading engineering company and employs 23,000 staff in the UK. This letter to staff makes clear that the uncertainty of a vote to leave the EU would be unsettling for the company.

11.28am BST

And back to the Osborne/Darling announcement.

Of Brexit and Black Holes. @George_Osborne at Hitachi pic.twitter.com/JV7JaLfG70

11.27am BST

More from the flotilla wars. This is the scene from Bob Geldof's boat.

@CharKrol @AndrewSparrow pic.twitter.com/nOzQhPfhoH

11.23am BST

And here is Steven Woolfe, Ukip's financial affairs spokesman, on George Osborne's proposed pro-Brexit budget.

If George Osborne thinks he will still be chancellor in the event of a Brexit, he is living in cloud cuckoo land.

His conduct during this campaign - culminating in Project Fear's nuclear bomb today - has been nothing short of disgraceful. Given this fact, his threat to hold a punishment emergency budget which promises tax rises and extra austerity should be treated with the contempt it deserves.

11.21am BST

As George Osborne announces his hyphothetical Brexit budget, Tory MPs continue to criticise him.

This is from Owen Paterson, the former environment secretary, who is one of the 57 Tory MPs who has said they would vote against Osborne's plans.

The Remain campaign have reached panic stations. They have lost all the major arguments and have now resorted to scaring the British people. They are taking us for fools.

If the Chancellor thinks he could pass such a punishment budget through the House of Commons he is utterly delusional. I wouldn't hesitate about voting against it.

11.18am BST

Here's another extract from the Brexit budget.

Osborne's Brexit budget says Britain would not be able to 'grow its way out of this problem' pic.twitter.com/AzIbWkFWE9

11.16am BST

Alistair Darling and @George_Osborne join together to warn of the economic impact of a vote to leave #strongerin pic.twitter.com/XPZpvobq00

11.12am BST

Here is the key chart from the document.

.@George_Osborne and Darling leak their post Brexit emergency budget. Hmmm pic.twitter.com/6Q9ry7yByr

11.11am BST

Journalists have been handed the Brexit budget.

Osborne's Brexit Budget has a very Brown look about it... pic.twitter.com/W8CkBL7lqd

11.07am BST

George Osborne is about to make his announcement about his proposed post-Brexit emergency budget shortly.

Waiting for Osborne's emergency #Brexit budget pic.twitter.com/89L2vDyWiy

11.02am BST

David Cameron is trying to arrange a joint pro-EU appearance with his predecessors Gordon Brown, Tony Blair and Sir John Major, Christian Today reports. The story by James Macintyre (who used to be the New Statesman's political correspondent) says: "Plans are well developed for the prime minister to appear on a platform next week alongside Gordon Brown, Tony Blair and Sir John Major."

10.57am BST

But the Mirror's Mikey Smith is with Bob Geldof on a rival Remain flottila.

So I'm on a Remain boat with Bob Geldof and Rachel Johnson. They're heading off Nigel Farage's Thames flotilla. pic.twitter.com/JU3vpuwWtK

General consensus is Farage has more boats, but Sir Bob has a better sound system. pic.twitter.com/ILjTpUuSKJ

SHOTS FIRED! A Leave vessel just hit Remain supporters with a hose

Putin also here. #BattleOfTheThames pic.twitter.com/MhTGORVMZt

10.54am BST

Here are some pictures from the Brexit flotilla coming up the Thames.

And here is a statement from Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, about the flotilla.

The governing principle of the common fisheries policy is that of "equal access to a common resource". Fish stock is that should be within the UK's internationally recognised territorial waters are now shared our European Partners. This has led to a 60% drop in oversized landings and the loss of tens of thousands of jobs in our industry.

There are now many harbours without a single commercial vessel, not satisfied with that the EU is now regulating our recreational sea anglers. Under and EU regulation issued in December no anglers may take a single bass for tea.This is now leading to a loss of jobs in our charter angling fleet.

10.48am BST

It is an opposition day in the Commons, which means the afternoon has been set aside for a debate on a motion tabled by Labour. Their motion, tabled by Jeremy Corbyn and others, is about the economic benefits of membership of the EU. This is what it says:

That this House believes that the UK needs to stay in the EU because it offers the best framework for trade, manufacturing, employment rights and cooperation to meet the challenges the UK faces in the world in the twenty-first century; and notes that tens of billions of pounds worth of investment and millions of jobs are linked to the UK's membership of the EU, the biggest market in the world.

10.36am BST

John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, said the party would never support such an emergency budget and disowned Alistair Darling's backing for the approach.

This maybe a natural Tory approach but no Labour chancellor would respond to an economic shock in this manner. And neither did Alistair Darling in 2008. Any credible economist would tell you that raising taxes or cutting spending or both in response to an economic shock is the wrong thing to do.

It's deeply worryingly that this suggests the current Tory chancellor thinks this is a sensible response. But it highlights what is on offer under a Tory Brexit as George Osborne is only saying what those Tories campaigning for a Tory Brexit truly believe deep down.

10.31am BST

Nicola Sturgeon has warned that a Brexit vote next week will lead to "a rightwing Tory takeover" of the UK, allowing a "power grab" by Conservatives who believe David Cameron and George Osborne are moderates.

Urging remain supporters to "vote in big numbers" next week, the first minister has said a Brexit vote would leave Scotland "vulnerable to the most rightwing Tory government in modern history."

10.28am BST

Here is a Guardian video explaining some of the EU referendum lies, myths and half-truths.

10.23am BST

It is not all bad news from George Osborne today.

At 5%, unemployment at its lowest rate for eleven years - let's not put that at risk by irreversible decision to quit EU #StrongerIn

Unemployment has fallen to an eight-year low as the numbers in work continues to reach record levels, new figures have shown.

The jobless total was cut by 20,000 in the quarter to April to 1.67m, the lowest since the spring of 2008.

10.07am BST

And here is some Ukip reaction to George Osborne.

From Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader

Academic review shows Treasury wildly exaggerating impact of Leaving EU. Mr. Osborne's claims not credible. https://t.co/Ht2P8If5L8

If my timeline is anything to go by, Osborne is toast.

#punishmentbudget illustrates the depth of contempt Osborne & #Remain chums have for us, the UK & his own -quite clearly - lying manifesto.

10.03am BST

Here is ITV's Robert Peston on George Osborne's stance.

.@George_Osborne bet his job as Chancellor on winning referendum vote for Remain, as 57 Tory MPs say he has to go if pushes emergency budget

9.58am BST

Here is Jonathan Portes, a former senior government economist and now a fellow at the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, on George Osborne's proposals.

Post-Brexit, an "emergency Budget" to raise taxes & cut spending would be precisely wrong response. My thoughts: pic.twitter.com/LiX8RSZOyD

9.51am BST

This is what journalists are saying about George Osborne's Today interview, and about his post-Brexit emergency budget proposal generally.

From PoliticsHome's Kevin Schofield

That might be the worst Today interview George Osborne has ever given. Sounded rattled.

Bravo @MishalHusainBBC for calling out George Osborne on apocalyptic Punishment Budget threat @BBCr4today

After Brexit, public finances need 2 things: Immediate flexibility, & a plan for postponed prudence. Osborne weak on 1), strong on 2)

I would not play a game of chicken with George Osborne. He has a stronger nerve than most. Certainly stronger than flapping backbenchers.

Osborne's attempt to scare people with Brexit=Cuts is irresponsible nonsense - I'll try to persuade you to Remain calmly & rationally (1/2)

(2/2) as Macmillan said: UK workers beat Hitler & Kaiser... They won't be scared sh*tless by Osborne and the Institute for Fiscal Studies

On Osborne Brexit fiscal black hole fears -said similar re Scotland 2014 - Project Fear? - It turned out even worse: pic.twitter.com/geTdBoQxr3

- on above tables, look at the last line "Memo" - Osborne 2014 warning of 4bn fall in volatile North Sea revenues - correct, conservative

Starting to think Osborne may have delivered his last Budget, whichever way the referendum goes

Substantial Tory backbench revolt says if Mr Osborne proceeded with his "punishment" budget, his position as Chancellor would be untenable.

If there's a #Remain vote, Osborne has now dented his reputation with huge chunk of Tory MPs. Big sign of #Brexit worry inside Downing St.

If Brexit happens, MPs will stop Osborne's emergency budget. And he won't be in post for long anyway. https://t.co/OvP9cxhEnM

Bear in mind that if Britain votes for Brexit @George_Osborne wont be Chancellor any more. He'd prob have to resign within hours

9.42am BST

Here is Robert Oxley, head of media for Vote Leave, on George Osborne's proposed post-Brexit emergency budget.

Osborne says this is how any Chancellor would respond. Darling faced with an actual crisis in 2008 chose precisely opposite fiscal policies

9.35am BST

Here is the Labour MP Gisela Stuart, chair of Vote Leave, on George Osborne's claims about the need for a tax-raising emergency budget after a vote to leave the EU. She said:

I simply can't believe that Alistair Darling and the Labour party would support an Osborne punishment budget that is designed to hit the poorest hardest. George Osborne's reckless and shameful proposals would, if not blocked, cut the NHS, cut pensions and cut funding for schools and I will never vote for this and nor do I think will any of my Labour colleagues.

I hope the Labour party will now make clear that these desperate proposals would never have our support, and are nothing more than another sorry attempt to scare the British people into supporting George Osborne, David Cameron, and their rich friends who want us to remain in the EU.

9.26am BST

Iain Duncan Smith, the Conservative former work and pensions secretary and one of the 57 Tory MPs who has signed the letter saying they would vote down George Osborne's proposed post-Brexit emergency budget (see 8.29am) has told LBC that Osborne's warning is the most irresponsible thing he has seen from a chancellor.

IDS on LBC: Osborne's budget claim the most irresponsible thing I've seen from a Chancellor https://t.co/XXNMVjAEbE pic.twitter.com/hA3kKJ9x6B

9.20am BST

Here are the main points from George Osborne's Today interview.

No Conservatives want to raise taxes, least of all me. But equally Conservatives understand, and indeed I suspect many Labour politicians understand, you cannot have chaos in your public finances. You have to deal with the hole that would emerge if we quit the EU.

The point is the county does not have a plan if we quit the EU. We would wake up, in just over a week's time, with no plan for our country, with financial instability, with year's of uncertainty. And you have to cut your cloth accordingly. The country would not be able to afford the size of the public services we have at the moment and we would have to increase taxes. That is the reality of a country that is not just immediately poorer, because of the uncertainty and the financial markets, but for decades ahead would be doing less trade with its key partners, its key allies, and the rest of the world.

Just look at the people voting with their own money. They are not British people. They are investors in Britain. All around the world, sterling is falling, money is coming out of our stock market. You have got big companies like Rolls-Royce warning their workforce. You've got big property developers saying people aren't buying homes. You've got small businesses worried about their future. This isn't warnings just from a Conservative chancellor. This is real money out there in the real world.

Brexit might be for the very richest in our country. But it is the people on lower and middle incomes who will be affected, it is the people with job insecurity who will lose their jobs. They are the people who will pay the price for this enormous leap in the dark.

And by the way, when we walk through that door next Thursday, there is no coming back. We are not going to be rejoining the European Union in years to come when we think we have made a mistake. It will be a one-way exit, and that is going to live with us for decades to come.

The short answer is no, because we have a plan and the plan is to restrict the welfare that people have when they come to this country.

8.37am BST

And here is Matthew Elliott, the Vote Leave chief executive, on the statement from the 57 Tory MPs.

George Osborne's reckless teenage temper tantrum has proved a step too far. Threatening to vandalise the economy has led to his MPs effectively declaring no confidence in him. The prime minister must reflect on the failure of his appalling scare tactics and stop undermining the British economy for his own political interests.

8.29am BST

Here is the statement signed today by 57 Tory MPs saying they would vote against George Osborne's proposed post-Brexit emergency budget. It has been issued by Vote Leave.

It says:

We find it incredible that the chancellor could seriously be threatening to renege on so many manifesto pledges. It is absurd to say that if people vote to take back control from the EU that he would want to punish them in this way. We do not believe that he would find it possible to get support in parliament for these proposals to cut the NHS, our police forces and our schools.

8.23am BST

Q: You are trying to scare people. This is a classic case of Project Fear.

Osborne says look at what investors are doing. Sterling is falling. Money is being taken out of the stock market. This is real money, in the real world.

8.22am BST

Q: How will you get EU migration down?

Osborne says the government is addressing abuse of the welfare system. It will be harder for EU migrants to claim benefits. And the government is doing what it can to promote economic growth in eurozone economies.

8.19am BST

Q: Voters may not believe you. Or they may think this is worth it. Is there anything more the government can offer on freedom of movement?

Osborne says it is all very well for people who are wealthy to say it does not matter if the country is worse off. Osborne says he cares about that. Brexit might be for the very richest in this country. But it is not for others.

8.16am BST

Q: But the economy was weak before the EU referendum campaign started.

Osborne says the country does face economic challenges. But cutting off your links with your closest trading allies is not the answer to any of those problems.

8.13am BST

Good morning. I'm Andrew Sparrow, taking over from Claire.

George Osborne is being interviewed on the Today programme.

7.53am BST

Sky News is reporting that 57 Conservative MPs say they would vote down a post-Brexit emergency budget of the kind dangled by George Osborne today:

Some 57 Tory MPs have written a letter saying they will vote down the Brexit budget, which would contain 30bn of tax hikes and spending cuts, signalling a significant escalation in the Conservative civil war over the EU.

7.32am BST

The British Medical Journal has published an editorial - penned by editor in chief Fiona Godlee and colleagues - on why it thinks doctors should vote remain. The authors acknowledge that this is "an unusual move" for the journal:

Some readers may wonder why the BMJ is intervening in a political debate. We think this issue transcends politics and has such huge ramifications for health and society that it is important to state our case "

It has become increasingly obvious that the arguments for remaining in the EU are overwhelming, and that now is not the time for balance.

Its constant claim that the UK sends 350m to the EU every week has been blown out of the water " But perhaps the most laughable untruth is that the NHS would be safer in their hands "

Those who want the UK to leave are not unlike the antivaccine lobbyists who, having forgotten the evils of measles, mumps and rubella, turn to the alleged harms of the vaccines themselves. Likewise Brexit campaigners have forgotten the evils of virulent nationalism because Europe has succeeded in containing them.

6.58am BST

Good morning and welcome to our daily

Source	RSS or Atom Feed
Feed Location	http://feeds.theguardian.com/theguardian/business/economics/rss
Feed Title
Feed Link	http://feeds.theguardian.com/