I'm offended! (Score: 2, Funny) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-07-25 14:29 (#2MT) I'll have you know, I was born without a nose and find this deeply offensive!Fo' real though, I actually kind of dislike how cluttered most KDE apps are. I don't consider it a good thing to include everything and the kitchen sink into a program. I'd rather be given options for realistic use cases. So that's why I tend to prefer the Gnome stuff (that and the fact that they pull less libraries; have they fixed that?). If a piece of software doesn't do enough for me, I'll look XFCE's way or try to find a GTK non-gnome app that has what I need. So for example, they made nautilius pretty useless, so I'm running thunar. But when it comes to music players, I really just want a play button and a slider.... So the gnome player is fine by me.I'd prefer if KDE programes were more extendable, rather than being cluttered by default. Re: I'm offended! (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-07-25 14:30 (#2MV) I guess you can tell I'm a vim user, not an emacs one. :) Re: I'm offended! (Score: 1) by zafiro17@pipedot.org on 2014-07-25 19:16 (#2MY) Good comment! Different strokes for different folks, though. I actually prefer programs that astound you from the start with all the options. It impresses me with how much the thing can already do, and I make an effort to learn what those options are and how to use them.I use Adobe Acrobat XI at work now (not Reader) and they just went through this philosophical shift from the last version. In the last version there were tons of tricks and functions, and that's how I learned that it was even possible to deskew slanted images, reduce the DPI resolution and/or the file size, downsample bitmaps, and the like. XI does all those things too but looking at the menu you'd be hardpressed to guess it's possible. Instead you have to enable "toolsets" and that makes different tools exposed. Point is: the old version showed you everything it could do, while the new version you have to suspect it's possible and then hunt for the place to make it happen. I prefer the former.That said, I recognize I'm in the minority. It seems most "modern" computer users are trying as hard as possible to not have to think, and expect software to be simplified down/dumbed down to where its interface meets their lighter cognitive load (so to speak). Maybe it's a generational thing. Re: I'm offended! (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-07-25 20:52 (#2N6) I don't really think it's about not wanting to think, it's mostly about wanting to be able to find what you want as fast as possible. A program that includes everything will naturally add a lot of noise which will make it harder to find the option you need. Obviously you also need a basic set of features if you're gonna do any work, in that sense I perfectly understand the frustration with designers who make things "clean" at the cost of functionality.The average user does want to think: he wants to think about the task at hand. I'd rather spend my brain's processing power dealing with whatever I wanted to do than to use it trying to figure out my tools. Yes, you can discover things you might not have expected when you are given complex tools, but an enterprising spirit would have sought out those advanced techniques anyway.This is why I prefer to deal with those things using extensions, or simply choosing to install more advanced software if needed. To me a program like thunar is really striking the perfect balance: it does all that an average user might want, provides more niche functions in an unobtrusive fashion and is extensible as wellIsn't the unix philosophy to do one thing, and to do it well? I like that way of thinking. :)
Re: I'm offended! (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-07-25 14:30 (#2MV) I guess you can tell I'm a vim user, not an emacs one. :) Re: I'm offended! (Score: 1) by zafiro17@pipedot.org on 2014-07-25 19:16 (#2MY) Good comment! Different strokes for different folks, though. I actually prefer programs that astound you from the start with all the options. It impresses me with how much the thing can already do, and I make an effort to learn what those options are and how to use them.I use Adobe Acrobat XI at work now (not Reader) and they just went through this philosophical shift from the last version. In the last version there were tons of tricks and functions, and that's how I learned that it was even possible to deskew slanted images, reduce the DPI resolution and/or the file size, downsample bitmaps, and the like. XI does all those things too but looking at the menu you'd be hardpressed to guess it's possible. Instead you have to enable "toolsets" and that makes different tools exposed. Point is: the old version showed you everything it could do, while the new version you have to suspect it's possible and then hunt for the place to make it happen. I prefer the former.That said, I recognize I'm in the minority. It seems most "modern" computer users are trying as hard as possible to not have to think, and expect software to be simplified down/dumbed down to where its interface meets their lighter cognitive load (so to speak). Maybe it's a generational thing. Re: I'm offended! (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-07-25 20:52 (#2N6) I don't really think it's about not wanting to think, it's mostly about wanting to be able to find what you want as fast as possible. A program that includes everything will naturally add a lot of noise which will make it harder to find the option you need. Obviously you also need a basic set of features if you're gonna do any work, in that sense I perfectly understand the frustration with designers who make things "clean" at the cost of functionality.The average user does want to think: he wants to think about the task at hand. I'd rather spend my brain's processing power dealing with whatever I wanted to do than to use it trying to figure out my tools. Yes, you can discover things you might not have expected when you are given complex tools, but an enterprising spirit would have sought out those advanced techniques anyway.This is why I prefer to deal with those things using extensions, or simply choosing to install more advanced software if needed. To me a program like thunar is really striking the perfect balance: it does all that an average user might want, provides more niche functions in an unobtrusive fashion and is extensible as wellIsn't the unix philosophy to do one thing, and to do it well? I like that way of thinking. :)
Re: I'm offended! (Score: 1) by zafiro17@pipedot.org on 2014-07-25 19:16 (#2MY) Good comment! Different strokes for different folks, though. I actually prefer programs that astound you from the start with all the options. It impresses me with how much the thing can already do, and I make an effort to learn what those options are and how to use them.I use Adobe Acrobat XI at work now (not Reader) and they just went through this philosophical shift from the last version. In the last version there were tons of tricks and functions, and that's how I learned that it was even possible to deskew slanted images, reduce the DPI resolution and/or the file size, downsample bitmaps, and the like. XI does all those things too but looking at the menu you'd be hardpressed to guess it's possible. Instead you have to enable "toolsets" and that makes different tools exposed. Point is: the old version showed you everything it could do, while the new version you have to suspect it's possible and then hunt for the place to make it happen. I prefer the former.That said, I recognize I'm in the minority. It seems most "modern" computer users are trying as hard as possible to not have to think, and expect software to be simplified down/dumbed down to where its interface meets their lighter cognitive load (so to speak). Maybe it's a generational thing. Re: I'm offended! (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-07-25 20:52 (#2N6) I don't really think it's about not wanting to think, it's mostly about wanting to be able to find what you want as fast as possible. A program that includes everything will naturally add a lot of noise which will make it harder to find the option you need. Obviously you also need a basic set of features if you're gonna do any work, in that sense I perfectly understand the frustration with designers who make things "clean" at the cost of functionality.The average user does want to think: he wants to think about the task at hand. I'd rather spend my brain's processing power dealing with whatever I wanted to do than to use it trying to figure out my tools. Yes, you can discover things you might not have expected when you are given complex tools, but an enterprising spirit would have sought out those advanced techniques anyway.This is why I prefer to deal with those things using extensions, or simply choosing to install more advanced software if needed. To me a program like thunar is really striking the perfect balance: it does all that an average user might want, provides more niche functions in an unobtrusive fashion and is extensible as wellIsn't the unix philosophy to do one thing, and to do it well? I like that way of thinking. :)
Re: I'm offended! (Score: 1) by skarjak@pipedot.org on 2014-07-25 20:52 (#2N6) I don't really think it's about not wanting to think, it's mostly about wanting to be able to find what you want as fast as possible. A program that includes everything will naturally add a lot of noise which will make it harder to find the option you need. Obviously you also need a basic set of features if you're gonna do any work, in that sense I perfectly understand the frustration with designers who make things "clean" at the cost of functionality.The average user does want to think: he wants to think about the task at hand. I'd rather spend my brain's processing power dealing with whatever I wanted to do than to use it trying to figure out my tools. Yes, you can discover things you might not have expected when you are given complex tools, but an enterprising spirit would have sought out those advanced techniques anyway.This is why I prefer to deal with those things using extensions, or simply choosing to install more advanced software if needed. To me a program like thunar is really striking the perfect balance: it does all that an average user might want, provides more niche functions in an unobtrusive fashion and is extensible as wellIsn't the unix philosophy to do one thing, and to do it well? I like that way of thinking. :)