Tiobe index shows Java and C++ slip in popularity

in code on 2014-09-10 11:19 (#2S7V)

The Tiobe Index this month shows both C++ and Java languages are less popular than they've ever been, though they're still popular.

"Java and C++ are at an all-time low in the Tiobe index since its start in the year 2001. This doesn't necessarily mean that Java and C++ are on their way out. There is still a huge demand for these programming languages," Tiobe says. Based on a formula that analyzes searches on languages on a number of sites, Java's rating in the September index was 14.14 percent; C++ had a rating of 4.67 percent. Overall, Java ranked second in popularity, while C++ came in fourth.

That doesn't mean they're not still popular languages, and it doesn't mean they're not in demand. But the statistics do show their influence waning as newer and more focused programming languages gain in popularity to address domain-specific programming challenges, like Swift for Apple products, or Ruby [Ed note: for what?]. As usual, C#, PHP, and Python remain in high interest by the programming community. The Tiobe index itself is here.

Java (Score: 4, Insightful)

by vanderhoth@pipedot.org on 2014-09-10 12:43 (#2S7W)

I'm a Java developer for internal applications. There's nothing wrong with the language itself, but it's on its way out. Unfortunately there is too much instability when it comes to what people THINK Oracle is going to do with it. My corp. moved to java over a decade ago because it was free, available, cross platform and easy to learn. It looked like it would be supported well into the future. Then Oracle bought out Sun and now there's speculation that Oracle wants to split Java into "paid for" and "free" meaning there's a good chance anyone not paying for it are going to end up with an incomparable poorly supported version. Those doing the major development, like my company, will be forced into paying tens of thousands a year in licensing only to have to deal with supporting the people using our software under the "free" version. There's also the fear that Oracle will do what they do with their other products and split things out into separate modules with confusing license agreements. You'll end up needing everything and the licensing will be unclear. Make one bad decision, or include an unlicensed module you have access to, but aren't paying for, and Oracle will sue you into oblivion for licensing violations.

So of course with that expectation, we're planning for the worse case and have recently started training developers in several different languages to try and find one that might be a suitable replacement going forward. Ruby, Python and R our our top three choices at the moment. We're also looking at how difficult it'll be to provide software through web applications.

Re: Java (Score: 2, Interesting)

by zafiro17@pipedot.org on 2014-09-10 13:10 (#2S7Y)

That's insightful. Interesting how many stories involve Oracle's involvement being like the kiss of death. I know a good business manager who worked for Oracle at one point and he said even on that front, 'never again.' These high power manager/CEOs forget that their own personalities translate into corporate culture and eventually business practices. And if they're not careful, those practices can come back to haunt them.

I really miss Sun. I even bought StarOffice over OpenOffice to support the company that was making an office suite available for Linux and then going on to support the users. Oracle seems cold and distant and clueless and rather deaf to the concerns of its users.

Re: Java (Score: 2, Interesting)

by vanderhoth@pipedot.org on 2014-09-10 14:41 (#2S8B)

Pretty much exactly that. I understand Oracle is business and is out to make money, and they do databases really well, but, "It's a trap!"

They get you in and locked into their stack of products then there's no getting out and they just suck the money and life right out of you all kinds of gotchas left and right.

Re: Java (Score: 0)

by Anonymous Coward on 2014-09-18 09:44 (#2SJ8)

All of our new web apps are perl behing tomcat with apache in front. Java can still be used for old apps. On the high end SAP (ABAP) is now the future.

Obj-C above C++? (Score: 2, Interesting)

by kwerle@pipedot.org on 2014-09-10 17:11 (#2S8E)

Wow. As a long time Obj-C lover, that makes me happy.

I imagine it will be short lived, as Swift eats away at Obj-C. It will be interesting to see how that trends.

Re: Obj-C above C++? (Score: 1, Insightful)

by Anonymous Coward on 2014-09-10 19:07 (#2S8G)

IIUC, what Tiobe measures is current discussion. It's not a measure of popularity, exactly. More like
sqrt ((current use + interest) * (interest + fear) )

Also, Obj-C isn't one community. I'm really only interested in the Linux community, so anything that involves Carbon isn't very interesting, even if it DOES involve Obj-C. Others feel the exact opposite way. There's some overlap, but it's not huge (even though the Apple users are the larger segment they're effectively so divorced by the libraries that they use that there's little community).

P.S.: I'm not *that* interested in Obj-C, and this comment is about a year or so ago. And licensing issues mean I'm not likely to ever even LOOK at most things put up by Apple.