Editor note! (Score: 4, Insightful) by zafiro17@pipedot.org on 2014-11-11 20:49 (#2TZV) Vanderhoth - Hope my edits made this story more understandable without distorting anything! I spent a lot of time trying to get it into shape. It's an interesting story - thanks for all the time you put into it. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by vanderhoth@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 20:03 (#2V0R) One thing I would have liked is if you had of left my disclosure in there. I am a supporter and don't want to give the impression that I'm trying to hide that in anyway. Otherwise I think the updates are fine.I'm a little shady on the WAM tool, it seems it's not only being abused, but it's also being used to collect data on "offenders". The problem being what some people consider harassment is really broad. I don't like the idea of a radical political organization (of any kind) collecting data on me, especially if the intention is to use it to label me has a harasser for just disagreeing politely with someone. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 20:06 (#2V0S) but it's also being used to collect data on "offenders".This part is interesting. Any idea how this tool collects the data? Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by vanderhoth@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 20:19 (#2V0T) Any idea how this tool collects the data?I'm not really sure off the top of my head. I read it in a different article a few days ago. I'll see if I can track it down and get back to you. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 20:30 (#2V0V) This would be great. I once thought of writing a tool, which spiders a forum and does statistical analysis on texts. My idea was that this could help to detect double accounts and sock puppets. But... this is a bit beyond my usual work and this for me tremendous effort would be by far not rewarding enough, so I dropped this idea. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by vanderhoth@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 23:49 (#2V14) As it turns out it was my interruption of a quote in the article I linked."At the end of the pilot test period, WAM will analyze the data collected and use it to work with Twitter to better understand how gendered harassment functions on their platform, and to improve their responses to it." Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-13 00:04 (#2V16) Ok, this is easy. I interpreted this 'collect data' as in 'collect data and identify the poster', which would be a tremendous feat.I always wondered if one can sue twitter or other internet services if they delete some insults, but not others. If they delete nothing, one can say they just provide the platform. If they delete all insults, they are a neutral party. But if they delete some insults and harassment tweets and let other stand, one can argue, that they agree with the latter and adopt them as their own. So they should be treated as if the insults or harassments come from twitter (or other services) itself. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by unitron@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 03:50 (#2V28) But deleting *all* insults means making an editorial judgement on what is and what isn't an insult, so the supposed neutrality of it could be questioned. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 10:34 (#2V2A) In some countries you are required to delete personal insults anyways. Sure, it is not always an easy decision, but usually one can see, if the moderators have problems to keep up with the insults, or if they participate in the discussion with the ban/delete button. Re: Editor note! (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-15 09:46 (#2V2J) Which countries censor free speech in this manner? Re: Editor note! (Score: 2, Interesting) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-15 11:14 (#2V2K) Germany, for instance. If one member insults another member, the insulted one reports it, but forums owner does nothing, it is possible that he get sued as if he himself did the insult. Does not happen often, but it is possible.And yes, free speech. I am all for free speech, but there is a line between free speech and senseless insults or even slander. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-16 08:07 (#2V2N) Perhaps it is best that for now the US retains ICANN control Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-17 00:08 (#2V2R) This has nothing to do with ICANN or the US. And nothing to do with control over the internet. If the servers stand in Germany or even if your website targets mainly Germans, a site in German might be enough for the courts to assume this, German laws can be applied to you. Sure, this does not mean that people outside Germany have to care, the US Americans would laugh their asses off, when a German court requests an extradition because an American provider refused to remove an insult against a German politician. For a provider within the reach of the German law this is everything, but funny. One can almost say everyone, who hosts a public forum in Germany, which allows users to post uncensored, is an idiot. At least as a hobby project without a huge legal department in the backhand. Hosting a site like pipedot where nothing is really removed, but just down voted, would be legal suicide in Germany.But apart from that, not only in Germany there are limits to free speech. I really doubt, one would be protected by free speech, and you probably would not want one to be protected, if one for instance publicly makes up claims in forums that you have an unhealthy interest in little children.So I suppose what it comes to this, the laws in most countries are not that different, there are only gradual differences of what has to be tolerated in the name of free speech. Personally I lean more to the US American interpretation. Especially since with few exceptions only idiots and people, who don't know the Streisand effect, try to take legal actions against unwanted stuff in the internet lightly.
Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by vanderhoth@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 20:03 (#2V0R) One thing I would have liked is if you had of left my disclosure in there. I am a supporter and don't want to give the impression that I'm trying to hide that in anyway. Otherwise I think the updates are fine.I'm a little shady on the WAM tool, it seems it's not only being abused, but it's also being used to collect data on "offenders". The problem being what some people consider harassment is really broad. I don't like the idea of a radical political organization (of any kind) collecting data on me, especially if the intention is to use it to label me has a harasser for just disagreeing politely with someone. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 20:06 (#2V0S) but it's also being used to collect data on "offenders".This part is interesting. Any idea how this tool collects the data? Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by vanderhoth@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 20:19 (#2V0T) Any idea how this tool collects the data?I'm not really sure off the top of my head. I read it in a different article a few days ago. I'll see if I can track it down and get back to you. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 20:30 (#2V0V) This would be great. I once thought of writing a tool, which spiders a forum and does statistical analysis on texts. My idea was that this could help to detect double accounts and sock puppets. But... this is a bit beyond my usual work and this for me tremendous effort would be by far not rewarding enough, so I dropped this idea. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by vanderhoth@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 23:49 (#2V14) As it turns out it was my interruption of a quote in the article I linked."At the end of the pilot test period, WAM will analyze the data collected and use it to work with Twitter to better understand how gendered harassment functions on their platform, and to improve their responses to it." Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-13 00:04 (#2V16) Ok, this is easy. I interpreted this 'collect data' as in 'collect data and identify the poster', which would be a tremendous feat.I always wondered if one can sue twitter or other internet services if they delete some insults, but not others. If they delete nothing, one can say they just provide the platform. If they delete all insults, they are a neutral party. But if they delete some insults and harassment tweets and let other stand, one can argue, that they agree with the latter and adopt them as their own. So they should be treated as if the insults or harassments come from twitter (or other services) itself. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by unitron@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 03:50 (#2V28) But deleting *all* insults means making an editorial judgement on what is and what isn't an insult, so the supposed neutrality of it could be questioned. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 10:34 (#2V2A) In some countries you are required to delete personal insults anyways. Sure, it is not always an easy decision, but usually one can see, if the moderators have problems to keep up with the insults, or if they participate in the discussion with the ban/delete button. Re: Editor note! (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-15 09:46 (#2V2J) Which countries censor free speech in this manner? Re: Editor note! (Score: 2, Interesting) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-15 11:14 (#2V2K) Germany, for instance. If one member insults another member, the insulted one reports it, but forums owner does nothing, it is possible that he get sued as if he himself did the insult. Does not happen often, but it is possible.And yes, free speech. I am all for free speech, but there is a line between free speech and senseless insults or even slander. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-16 08:07 (#2V2N) Perhaps it is best that for now the US retains ICANN control Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-17 00:08 (#2V2R) This has nothing to do with ICANN or the US. And nothing to do with control over the internet. If the servers stand in Germany or even if your website targets mainly Germans, a site in German might be enough for the courts to assume this, German laws can be applied to you. Sure, this does not mean that people outside Germany have to care, the US Americans would laugh their asses off, when a German court requests an extradition because an American provider refused to remove an insult against a German politician. For a provider within the reach of the German law this is everything, but funny. One can almost say everyone, who hosts a public forum in Germany, which allows users to post uncensored, is an idiot. At least as a hobby project without a huge legal department in the backhand. Hosting a site like pipedot where nothing is really removed, but just down voted, would be legal suicide in Germany.But apart from that, not only in Germany there are limits to free speech. I really doubt, one would be protected by free speech, and you probably would not want one to be protected, if one for instance publicly makes up claims in forums that you have an unhealthy interest in little children.So I suppose what it comes to this, the laws in most countries are not that different, there are only gradual differences of what has to be tolerated in the name of free speech. Personally I lean more to the US American interpretation. Especially since with few exceptions only idiots and people, who don't know the Streisand effect, try to take legal actions against unwanted stuff in the internet lightly.
Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 20:06 (#2V0S) but it's also being used to collect data on "offenders".This part is interesting. Any idea how this tool collects the data? Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by vanderhoth@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 20:19 (#2V0T) Any idea how this tool collects the data?I'm not really sure off the top of my head. I read it in a different article a few days ago. I'll see if I can track it down and get back to you. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 20:30 (#2V0V) This would be great. I once thought of writing a tool, which spiders a forum and does statistical analysis on texts. My idea was that this could help to detect double accounts and sock puppets. But... this is a bit beyond my usual work and this for me tremendous effort would be by far not rewarding enough, so I dropped this idea. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by vanderhoth@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 23:49 (#2V14) As it turns out it was my interruption of a quote in the article I linked."At the end of the pilot test period, WAM will analyze the data collected and use it to work with Twitter to better understand how gendered harassment functions on their platform, and to improve their responses to it." Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-13 00:04 (#2V16) Ok, this is easy. I interpreted this 'collect data' as in 'collect data and identify the poster', which would be a tremendous feat.I always wondered if one can sue twitter or other internet services if they delete some insults, but not others. If they delete nothing, one can say they just provide the platform. If they delete all insults, they are a neutral party. But if they delete some insults and harassment tweets and let other stand, one can argue, that they agree with the latter and adopt them as their own. So they should be treated as if the insults or harassments come from twitter (or other services) itself. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by unitron@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 03:50 (#2V28) But deleting *all* insults means making an editorial judgement on what is and what isn't an insult, so the supposed neutrality of it could be questioned. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 10:34 (#2V2A) In some countries you are required to delete personal insults anyways. Sure, it is not always an easy decision, but usually one can see, if the moderators have problems to keep up with the insults, or if they participate in the discussion with the ban/delete button. Re: Editor note! (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-15 09:46 (#2V2J) Which countries censor free speech in this manner? Re: Editor note! (Score: 2, Interesting) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-15 11:14 (#2V2K) Germany, for instance. If one member insults another member, the insulted one reports it, but forums owner does nothing, it is possible that he get sued as if he himself did the insult. Does not happen often, but it is possible.And yes, free speech. I am all for free speech, but there is a line between free speech and senseless insults or even slander. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-16 08:07 (#2V2N) Perhaps it is best that for now the US retains ICANN control Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-17 00:08 (#2V2R) This has nothing to do with ICANN or the US. And nothing to do with control over the internet. If the servers stand in Germany or even if your website targets mainly Germans, a site in German might be enough for the courts to assume this, German laws can be applied to you. Sure, this does not mean that people outside Germany have to care, the US Americans would laugh their asses off, when a German court requests an extradition because an American provider refused to remove an insult against a German politician. For a provider within the reach of the German law this is everything, but funny. One can almost say everyone, who hosts a public forum in Germany, which allows users to post uncensored, is an idiot. At least as a hobby project without a huge legal department in the backhand. Hosting a site like pipedot where nothing is really removed, but just down voted, would be legal suicide in Germany.But apart from that, not only in Germany there are limits to free speech. I really doubt, one would be protected by free speech, and you probably would not want one to be protected, if one for instance publicly makes up claims in forums that you have an unhealthy interest in little children.So I suppose what it comes to this, the laws in most countries are not that different, there are only gradual differences of what has to be tolerated in the name of free speech. Personally I lean more to the US American interpretation. Especially since with few exceptions only idiots and people, who don't know the Streisand effect, try to take legal actions against unwanted stuff in the internet lightly.
Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by vanderhoth@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 20:19 (#2V0T) Any idea how this tool collects the data?I'm not really sure off the top of my head. I read it in a different article a few days ago. I'll see if I can track it down and get back to you. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 20:30 (#2V0V) This would be great. I once thought of writing a tool, which spiders a forum and does statistical analysis on texts. My idea was that this could help to detect double accounts and sock puppets. But... this is a bit beyond my usual work and this for me tremendous effort would be by far not rewarding enough, so I dropped this idea. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by vanderhoth@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 23:49 (#2V14) As it turns out it was my interruption of a quote in the article I linked."At the end of the pilot test period, WAM will analyze the data collected and use it to work with Twitter to better understand how gendered harassment functions on their platform, and to improve their responses to it." Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-13 00:04 (#2V16) Ok, this is easy. I interpreted this 'collect data' as in 'collect data and identify the poster', which would be a tremendous feat.I always wondered if one can sue twitter or other internet services if they delete some insults, but not others. If they delete nothing, one can say they just provide the platform. If they delete all insults, they are a neutral party. But if they delete some insults and harassment tweets and let other stand, one can argue, that they agree with the latter and adopt them as their own. So they should be treated as if the insults or harassments come from twitter (or other services) itself. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by unitron@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 03:50 (#2V28) But deleting *all* insults means making an editorial judgement on what is and what isn't an insult, so the supposed neutrality of it could be questioned. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 10:34 (#2V2A) In some countries you are required to delete personal insults anyways. Sure, it is not always an easy decision, but usually one can see, if the moderators have problems to keep up with the insults, or if they participate in the discussion with the ban/delete button. Re: Editor note! (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-15 09:46 (#2V2J) Which countries censor free speech in this manner? Re: Editor note! (Score: 2, Interesting) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-15 11:14 (#2V2K) Germany, for instance. If one member insults another member, the insulted one reports it, but forums owner does nothing, it is possible that he get sued as if he himself did the insult. Does not happen often, but it is possible.And yes, free speech. I am all for free speech, but there is a line between free speech and senseless insults or even slander. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-16 08:07 (#2V2N) Perhaps it is best that for now the US retains ICANN control Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-17 00:08 (#2V2R) This has nothing to do with ICANN or the US. And nothing to do with control over the internet. If the servers stand in Germany or even if your website targets mainly Germans, a site in German might be enough for the courts to assume this, German laws can be applied to you. Sure, this does not mean that people outside Germany have to care, the US Americans would laugh their asses off, when a German court requests an extradition because an American provider refused to remove an insult against a German politician. For a provider within the reach of the German law this is everything, but funny. One can almost say everyone, who hosts a public forum in Germany, which allows users to post uncensored, is an idiot. At least as a hobby project without a huge legal department in the backhand. Hosting a site like pipedot where nothing is really removed, but just down voted, would be legal suicide in Germany.But apart from that, not only in Germany there are limits to free speech. I really doubt, one would be protected by free speech, and you probably would not want one to be protected, if one for instance publicly makes up claims in forums that you have an unhealthy interest in little children.So I suppose what it comes to this, the laws in most countries are not that different, there are only gradual differences of what has to be tolerated in the name of free speech. Personally I lean more to the US American interpretation. Especially since with few exceptions only idiots and people, who don't know the Streisand effect, try to take legal actions against unwanted stuff in the internet lightly.
Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 20:30 (#2V0V) This would be great. I once thought of writing a tool, which spiders a forum and does statistical analysis on texts. My idea was that this could help to detect double accounts and sock puppets. But... this is a bit beyond my usual work and this for me tremendous effort would be by far not rewarding enough, so I dropped this idea. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by vanderhoth@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 23:49 (#2V14) As it turns out it was my interruption of a quote in the article I linked."At the end of the pilot test period, WAM will analyze the data collected and use it to work with Twitter to better understand how gendered harassment functions on their platform, and to improve their responses to it." Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-13 00:04 (#2V16) Ok, this is easy. I interpreted this 'collect data' as in 'collect data and identify the poster', which would be a tremendous feat.I always wondered if one can sue twitter or other internet services if they delete some insults, but not others. If they delete nothing, one can say they just provide the platform. If they delete all insults, they are a neutral party. But if they delete some insults and harassment tweets and let other stand, one can argue, that they agree with the latter and adopt them as their own. So they should be treated as if the insults or harassments come from twitter (or other services) itself. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by unitron@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 03:50 (#2V28) But deleting *all* insults means making an editorial judgement on what is and what isn't an insult, so the supposed neutrality of it could be questioned. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 10:34 (#2V2A) In some countries you are required to delete personal insults anyways. Sure, it is not always an easy decision, but usually one can see, if the moderators have problems to keep up with the insults, or if they participate in the discussion with the ban/delete button. Re: Editor note! (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-15 09:46 (#2V2J) Which countries censor free speech in this manner? Re: Editor note! (Score: 2, Interesting) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-15 11:14 (#2V2K) Germany, for instance. If one member insults another member, the insulted one reports it, but forums owner does nothing, it is possible that he get sued as if he himself did the insult. Does not happen often, but it is possible.And yes, free speech. I am all for free speech, but there is a line between free speech and senseless insults or even slander. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-16 08:07 (#2V2N) Perhaps it is best that for now the US retains ICANN control Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-17 00:08 (#2V2R) This has nothing to do with ICANN or the US. And nothing to do with control over the internet. If the servers stand in Germany or even if your website targets mainly Germans, a site in German might be enough for the courts to assume this, German laws can be applied to you. Sure, this does not mean that people outside Germany have to care, the US Americans would laugh their asses off, when a German court requests an extradition because an American provider refused to remove an insult against a German politician. For a provider within the reach of the German law this is everything, but funny. One can almost say everyone, who hosts a public forum in Germany, which allows users to post uncensored, is an idiot. At least as a hobby project without a huge legal department in the backhand. Hosting a site like pipedot where nothing is really removed, but just down voted, would be legal suicide in Germany.But apart from that, not only in Germany there are limits to free speech. I really doubt, one would be protected by free speech, and you probably would not want one to be protected, if one for instance publicly makes up claims in forums that you have an unhealthy interest in little children.So I suppose what it comes to this, the laws in most countries are not that different, there are only gradual differences of what has to be tolerated in the name of free speech. Personally I lean more to the US American interpretation. Especially since with few exceptions only idiots and people, who don't know the Streisand effect, try to take legal actions against unwanted stuff in the internet lightly.
Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by vanderhoth@pipedot.org on 2014-11-12 23:49 (#2V14) As it turns out it was my interruption of a quote in the article I linked."At the end of the pilot test period, WAM will analyze the data collected and use it to work with Twitter to better understand how gendered harassment functions on their platform, and to improve their responses to it." Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-13 00:04 (#2V16) Ok, this is easy. I interpreted this 'collect data' as in 'collect data and identify the poster', which would be a tremendous feat.I always wondered if one can sue twitter or other internet services if they delete some insults, but not others. If they delete nothing, one can say they just provide the platform. If they delete all insults, they are a neutral party. But if they delete some insults and harassment tweets and let other stand, one can argue, that they agree with the latter and adopt them as their own. So they should be treated as if the insults or harassments come from twitter (or other services) itself. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by unitron@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 03:50 (#2V28) But deleting *all* insults means making an editorial judgement on what is and what isn't an insult, so the supposed neutrality of it could be questioned. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 10:34 (#2V2A) In some countries you are required to delete personal insults anyways. Sure, it is not always an easy decision, but usually one can see, if the moderators have problems to keep up with the insults, or if they participate in the discussion with the ban/delete button. Re: Editor note! (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-15 09:46 (#2V2J) Which countries censor free speech in this manner? Re: Editor note! (Score: 2, Interesting) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-15 11:14 (#2V2K) Germany, for instance. If one member insults another member, the insulted one reports it, but forums owner does nothing, it is possible that he get sued as if he himself did the insult. Does not happen often, but it is possible.And yes, free speech. I am all for free speech, but there is a line between free speech and senseless insults or even slander. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-16 08:07 (#2V2N) Perhaps it is best that for now the US retains ICANN control Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-17 00:08 (#2V2R) This has nothing to do with ICANN or the US. And nothing to do with control over the internet. If the servers stand in Germany or even if your website targets mainly Germans, a site in German might be enough for the courts to assume this, German laws can be applied to you. Sure, this does not mean that people outside Germany have to care, the US Americans would laugh their asses off, when a German court requests an extradition because an American provider refused to remove an insult against a German politician. For a provider within the reach of the German law this is everything, but funny. One can almost say everyone, who hosts a public forum in Germany, which allows users to post uncensored, is an idiot. At least as a hobby project without a huge legal department in the backhand. Hosting a site like pipedot where nothing is really removed, but just down voted, would be legal suicide in Germany.But apart from that, not only in Germany there are limits to free speech. I really doubt, one would be protected by free speech, and you probably would not want one to be protected, if one for instance publicly makes up claims in forums that you have an unhealthy interest in little children.So I suppose what it comes to this, the laws in most countries are not that different, there are only gradual differences of what has to be tolerated in the name of free speech. Personally I lean more to the US American interpretation. Especially since with few exceptions only idiots and people, who don't know the Streisand effect, try to take legal actions against unwanted stuff in the internet lightly.
Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-13 00:04 (#2V16) Ok, this is easy. I interpreted this 'collect data' as in 'collect data and identify the poster', which would be a tremendous feat.I always wondered if one can sue twitter or other internet services if they delete some insults, but not others. If they delete nothing, one can say they just provide the platform. If they delete all insults, they are a neutral party. But if they delete some insults and harassment tweets and let other stand, one can argue, that they agree with the latter and adopt them as their own. So they should be treated as if the insults or harassments come from twitter (or other services) itself. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by unitron@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 03:50 (#2V28) But deleting *all* insults means making an editorial judgement on what is and what isn't an insult, so the supposed neutrality of it could be questioned. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 10:34 (#2V2A) In some countries you are required to delete personal insults anyways. Sure, it is not always an easy decision, but usually one can see, if the moderators have problems to keep up with the insults, or if they participate in the discussion with the ban/delete button. Re: Editor note! (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-15 09:46 (#2V2J) Which countries censor free speech in this manner? Re: Editor note! (Score: 2, Interesting) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-15 11:14 (#2V2K) Germany, for instance. If one member insults another member, the insulted one reports it, but forums owner does nothing, it is possible that he get sued as if he himself did the insult. Does not happen often, but it is possible.And yes, free speech. I am all for free speech, but there is a line between free speech and senseless insults or even slander. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-16 08:07 (#2V2N) Perhaps it is best that for now the US retains ICANN control Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-17 00:08 (#2V2R) This has nothing to do with ICANN or the US. And nothing to do with control over the internet. If the servers stand in Germany or even if your website targets mainly Germans, a site in German might be enough for the courts to assume this, German laws can be applied to you. Sure, this does not mean that people outside Germany have to care, the US Americans would laugh their asses off, when a German court requests an extradition because an American provider refused to remove an insult against a German politician. For a provider within the reach of the German law this is everything, but funny. One can almost say everyone, who hosts a public forum in Germany, which allows users to post uncensored, is an idiot. At least as a hobby project without a huge legal department in the backhand. Hosting a site like pipedot where nothing is really removed, but just down voted, would be legal suicide in Germany.But apart from that, not only in Germany there are limits to free speech. I really doubt, one would be protected by free speech, and you probably would not want one to be protected, if one for instance publicly makes up claims in forums that you have an unhealthy interest in little children.So I suppose what it comes to this, the laws in most countries are not that different, there are only gradual differences of what has to be tolerated in the name of free speech. Personally I lean more to the US American interpretation. Especially since with few exceptions only idiots and people, who don't know the Streisand effect, try to take legal actions against unwanted stuff in the internet lightly.
Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by unitron@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 03:50 (#2V28) But deleting *all* insults means making an editorial judgement on what is and what isn't an insult, so the supposed neutrality of it could be questioned. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 10:34 (#2V2A) In some countries you are required to delete personal insults anyways. Sure, it is not always an easy decision, but usually one can see, if the moderators have problems to keep up with the insults, or if they participate in the discussion with the ban/delete button. Re: Editor note! (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-15 09:46 (#2V2J) Which countries censor free speech in this manner? Re: Editor note! (Score: 2, Interesting) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-15 11:14 (#2V2K) Germany, for instance. If one member insults another member, the insulted one reports it, but forums owner does nothing, it is possible that he get sued as if he himself did the insult. Does not happen often, but it is possible.And yes, free speech. I am all for free speech, but there is a line between free speech and senseless insults or even slander. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-16 08:07 (#2V2N) Perhaps it is best that for now the US retains ICANN control Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-17 00:08 (#2V2R) This has nothing to do with ICANN or the US. And nothing to do with control over the internet. If the servers stand in Germany or even if your website targets mainly Germans, a site in German might be enough for the courts to assume this, German laws can be applied to you. Sure, this does not mean that people outside Germany have to care, the US Americans would laugh their asses off, when a German court requests an extradition because an American provider refused to remove an insult against a German politician. For a provider within the reach of the German law this is everything, but funny. One can almost say everyone, who hosts a public forum in Germany, which allows users to post uncensored, is an idiot. At least as a hobby project without a huge legal department in the backhand. Hosting a site like pipedot where nothing is really removed, but just down voted, would be legal suicide in Germany.But apart from that, not only in Germany there are limits to free speech. I really doubt, one would be protected by free speech, and you probably would not want one to be protected, if one for instance publicly makes up claims in forums that you have an unhealthy interest in little children.So I suppose what it comes to this, the laws in most countries are not that different, there are only gradual differences of what has to be tolerated in the name of free speech. Personally I lean more to the US American interpretation. Especially since with few exceptions only idiots and people, who don't know the Streisand effect, try to take legal actions against unwanted stuff in the internet lightly.
Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-14 10:34 (#2V2A) In some countries you are required to delete personal insults anyways. Sure, it is not always an easy decision, but usually one can see, if the moderators have problems to keep up with the insults, or if they participate in the discussion with the ban/delete button. Re: Editor note! (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-15 09:46 (#2V2J) Which countries censor free speech in this manner? Re: Editor note! (Score: 2, Interesting) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-15 11:14 (#2V2K) Germany, for instance. If one member insults another member, the insulted one reports it, but forums owner does nothing, it is possible that he get sued as if he himself did the insult. Does not happen often, but it is possible.And yes, free speech. I am all for free speech, but there is a line between free speech and senseless insults or even slander. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-16 08:07 (#2V2N) Perhaps it is best that for now the US retains ICANN control Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-17 00:08 (#2V2R) This has nothing to do with ICANN or the US. And nothing to do with control over the internet. If the servers stand in Germany or even if your website targets mainly Germans, a site in German might be enough for the courts to assume this, German laws can be applied to you. Sure, this does not mean that people outside Germany have to care, the US Americans would laugh their asses off, when a German court requests an extradition because an American provider refused to remove an insult against a German politician. For a provider within the reach of the German law this is everything, but funny. One can almost say everyone, who hosts a public forum in Germany, which allows users to post uncensored, is an idiot. At least as a hobby project without a huge legal department in the backhand. Hosting a site like pipedot where nothing is really removed, but just down voted, would be legal suicide in Germany.But apart from that, not only in Germany there are limits to free speech. I really doubt, one would be protected by free speech, and you probably would not want one to be protected, if one for instance publicly makes up claims in forums that you have an unhealthy interest in little children.So I suppose what it comes to this, the laws in most countries are not that different, there are only gradual differences of what has to be tolerated in the name of free speech. Personally I lean more to the US American interpretation. Especially since with few exceptions only idiots and people, who don't know the Streisand effect, try to take legal actions against unwanted stuff in the internet lightly.
Re: Editor note! (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-15 09:46 (#2V2J) Which countries censor free speech in this manner? Re: Editor note! (Score: 2, Interesting) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-15 11:14 (#2V2K) Germany, for instance. If one member insults another member, the insulted one reports it, but forums owner does nothing, it is possible that he get sued as if he himself did the insult. Does not happen often, but it is possible.And yes, free speech. I am all for free speech, but there is a line between free speech and senseless insults or even slander. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-16 08:07 (#2V2N) Perhaps it is best that for now the US retains ICANN control Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-17 00:08 (#2V2R) This has nothing to do with ICANN or the US. And nothing to do with control over the internet. If the servers stand in Germany or even if your website targets mainly Germans, a site in German might be enough for the courts to assume this, German laws can be applied to you. Sure, this does not mean that people outside Germany have to care, the US Americans would laugh their asses off, when a German court requests an extradition because an American provider refused to remove an insult against a German politician. For a provider within the reach of the German law this is everything, but funny. One can almost say everyone, who hosts a public forum in Germany, which allows users to post uncensored, is an idiot. At least as a hobby project without a huge legal department in the backhand. Hosting a site like pipedot where nothing is really removed, but just down voted, would be legal suicide in Germany.But apart from that, not only in Germany there are limits to free speech. I really doubt, one would be protected by free speech, and you probably would not want one to be protected, if one for instance publicly makes up claims in forums that you have an unhealthy interest in little children.So I suppose what it comes to this, the laws in most countries are not that different, there are only gradual differences of what has to be tolerated in the name of free speech. Personally I lean more to the US American interpretation. Especially since with few exceptions only idiots and people, who don't know the Streisand effect, try to take legal actions against unwanted stuff in the internet lightly.
Re: Editor note! (Score: 2, Interesting) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-15 11:14 (#2V2K) Germany, for instance. If one member insults another member, the insulted one reports it, but forums owner does nothing, it is possible that he get sued as if he himself did the insult. Does not happen often, but it is possible.And yes, free speech. I am all for free speech, but there is a line between free speech and senseless insults or even slander. Re: Editor note! (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-16 08:07 (#2V2N) Perhaps it is best that for now the US retains ICANN control Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-17 00:08 (#2V2R) This has nothing to do with ICANN or the US. And nothing to do with control over the internet. If the servers stand in Germany or even if your website targets mainly Germans, a site in German might be enough for the courts to assume this, German laws can be applied to you. Sure, this does not mean that people outside Germany have to care, the US Americans would laugh their asses off, when a German court requests an extradition because an American provider refused to remove an insult against a German politician. For a provider within the reach of the German law this is everything, but funny. One can almost say everyone, who hosts a public forum in Germany, which allows users to post uncensored, is an idiot. At least as a hobby project without a huge legal department in the backhand. Hosting a site like pipedot where nothing is really removed, but just down voted, would be legal suicide in Germany.But apart from that, not only in Germany there are limits to free speech. I really doubt, one would be protected by free speech, and you probably would not want one to be protected, if one for instance publicly makes up claims in forums that you have an unhealthy interest in little children.So I suppose what it comes to this, the laws in most countries are not that different, there are only gradual differences of what has to be tolerated in the name of free speech. Personally I lean more to the US American interpretation. Especially since with few exceptions only idiots and people, who don't know the Streisand effect, try to take legal actions against unwanted stuff in the internet lightly.
Re: Editor note! (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on 2014-11-16 08:07 (#2V2N) Perhaps it is best that for now the US retains ICANN control Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-17 00:08 (#2V2R) This has nothing to do with ICANN or the US. And nothing to do with control over the internet. If the servers stand in Germany or even if your website targets mainly Germans, a site in German might be enough for the courts to assume this, German laws can be applied to you. Sure, this does not mean that people outside Germany have to care, the US Americans would laugh their asses off, when a German court requests an extradition because an American provider refused to remove an insult against a German politician. For a provider within the reach of the German law this is everything, but funny. One can almost say everyone, who hosts a public forum in Germany, which allows users to post uncensored, is an idiot. At least as a hobby project without a huge legal department in the backhand. Hosting a site like pipedot where nothing is really removed, but just down voted, would be legal suicide in Germany.But apart from that, not only in Germany there are limits to free speech. I really doubt, one would be protected by free speech, and you probably would not want one to be protected, if one for instance publicly makes up claims in forums that you have an unhealthy interest in little children.So I suppose what it comes to this, the laws in most countries are not that different, there are only gradual differences of what has to be tolerated in the name of free speech. Personally I lean more to the US American interpretation. Especially since with few exceptions only idiots and people, who don't know the Streisand effect, try to take legal actions against unwanted stuff in the internet lightly.
Re: Editor note! (Score: 1) by tanuki64@pipedot.org on 2014-11-17 00:08 (#2V2R) This has nothing to do with ICANN or the US. And nothing to do with control over the internet. If the servers stand in Germany or even if your website targets mainly Germans, a site in German might be enough for the courts to assume this, German laws can be applied to you. Sure, this does not mean that people outside Germany have to care, the US Americans would laugh their asses off, when a German court requests an extradition because an American provider refused to remove an insult against a German politician. For a provider within the reach of the German law this is everything, but funny. One can almost say everyone, who hosts a public forum in Germany, which allows users to post uncensored, is an idiot. At least as a hobby project without a huge legal department in the backhand. Hosting a site like pipedot where nothing is really removed, but just down voted, would be legal suicide in Germany.But apart from that, not only in Germany there are limits to free speech. I really doubt, one would be protected by free speech, and you probably would not want one to be protected, if one for instance publicly makes up claims in forums that you have an unhealthy interest in little children.So I suppose what it comes to this, the laws in most countries are not that different, there are only gradual differences of what has to be tolerated in the name of free speech. Personally I lean more to the US American interpretation. Especially since with few exceptions only idiots and people, who don't know the Streisand effect, try to take legal actions against unwanted stuff in the internet lightly.